Magenta Line - Monday, October 25, 2010
10-26-2010, 10:29 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: CAL
Posts: 14
That is simply FALSE. I haven't seen anything from our LEC/MEC that even remotely resembles the pointless tripe from the EWR LEC Capt rep. I haven't even HEARD anything like that from my own reps over the phone! If I did, you can bet that I would tell them to CEASE AND DESIST the public clown act!! I will tell you with ALL honestly that I haven't talked to a single UA pilot that is looking to gain seniority at the expense of you guys. Everyone wants a FAIR integration with little or no drama. But not Jayson apparently.... Say what you want, but he is doing a great disservice to all CAL pilots by broadcasting his testosterone for all to see. If you want to convey a message in private, do it over the phone or in person. Any expectation that his written word would not get to UAL pilots is naive at best, deceitful at worst.
MW
We currently have 1437 of our fellow pilots on furlough and we continue to focus our efforts on returning them to their rightful place in United cockpits as soon as possible.
From the C-11 Vice Chairman
“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves—
regret for the past and fear of the future.”
—Fulton Oursler
“Many of us crucify ourselves between two thieves—
regret for the past and fear of the future.”
—Fulton Oursler
We are facing the biggest crossroads in the history of the United pilots. A merger between Continental Airlines and United Airlines has been announced; extraordinary challenges come with this announcement. I want to remind each member of this council who I am and what I represent. My name is Marco Salazar, and I am a junior United Airlines pilot after over a decade on this property. In the past few days I have heard, read, and listened to many pilots who are fearful that your council officers do not remember whom we work for. Let me be clear: we work for the pilots of United Airlines. We do not work for ALPA national, we do not work for the master chairman, we do not work for the Continental pilots, and we do not work for management.
All of us have suffered during bankruptcy under the poor leadership of a past master chairman with a personal agenda. His weapon was fear. All of us have suffered under our current despicable management team. Their weapon is fear. Some of you may have made choices during the past decade due to fear. I understand how the past may be driving your present thinking about the company and your union. Today is different because we have a chance to finally achieve some of our goals. This can be accomplished only through solidarity. This will be accomplished only by staying informed with facts, not rhetoric. Do not allow your emotions of the past to influence your decisions of the future. You are not being “sold out”; your LEC officers are working for you.
Through this merger process I will advocate that your interests are protected every step of the way. You will have the final vote on a joint collective bargaining agreement. Keep in mind that this vote will be based on the majority of a combined pilot group. I will also guarantee that there will not be any concessions that Steve and I vote on just for the sake of this merger. It is the position of your council officers that Mr. Smisek—the CEO of Continental and our “potential” CEO—must have labor on board or this merger will fail. In order to have labor on board he and Mr. Tilton must deliver an industry-leading contract. His offer of Delta’s contract plus a dollar to Continental pilots falls extremely short of acceptable in many areas. Mr. Smisek has not impressed me so far when, moments into an announced merger, he takes a swipe at labor. If Mr. Smisek believes he can use fear on this group, I am confident that we will show him our resolve and what it means to be a United pilot.
At this point, no one has any idea how a seniority list integration (SLI) will look. We have no idea how the furloughed pilots will be integrated. I do know that we are United Airlines pilots and I will advocate for each and every one of you. There is no seniority list yet. Anything that you may have seen thus far is not rooted in fact. While the MEC and the line pilots will not vote on the final SLI product, I assure you that your leaders understand that we bring tremendous corporate assets to this deal. Just from the pilot standpoint we bring the best career expectations, the biggest pilot group, and a far larger cross-section of heavy airplanes to this merger. Whether the SLI is decided in negotiations or in front of an arbitrator’s panel, know that your Merger Committee is strong and will fight this fight for all of us.
If the deal can be completed to the satisfaction of this pilot group we will once again be the largest airline in the world. I am certain that will make many of us proud. Keep in mind that we were United Airlines pilots before the announced merger and will still be United Airlines pilots if the merger is successful.
In unity,
Marco A Salazar
[email protected]
10-26-2010, 10:34 AM
#22
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
The banding of aircraft occured at United during a concessionary period because the company demanded it. That alone should be reason enough for the pilots to want it unbanded. All aircraft types should be unbanded, not just the 400/777. Pilots at airlines that pay to longevity alone do not change aircraft types because there is no financial incentive to. When we are paid to a specific aircraft type, we chase the paycheck and change equipment frequently. Pilots used to go from right seat of the 737 to 727 to 757 to the DC 10 and then the 747. When they could hold it they would start again in the left seat of the 737 and make the same progression from the other side. Obviously some would hang out longer in a seat, and others would jump at the first chance to get in the left seat. The point is when a 747 captain would retire, a 777 captain (or DC10), would then move in to that vacancy, and 757/767 captain would move into the 777 vacancy etc. With banding aircraft types, the motivation to move isn't there and pilots don't change nearly as often. This either keeps pilots on the street, or puts them there. The 747 will eventually be replaced by either the A380 or the 747-800 or whatever else Boeing and Airbus come up with. Are you saying that if and when the A380 or other comparable aircraft come on the property we should just band it together with the 777/400 because that is the biggest we have? Demand industry leading pay for all aircraft types individually.
No where in your illustration have you provided any info on how Banded Pay Structure will "COST JOBS"?? What I, and others, cannot follow is how does a Banded Pay Rate with B777(B787) & B747 truly "COST JOBS"....IE Number of pilots required to occupy the seats on the given number of aircraft within the airline when pay for the WB is Banded vs Unbanded?? The only thing that would have direct influence on 'required staffing' would be the CBA's Work Rules/Staffing, that I buy.....BUT saying that Banded Pay would lessen the number of required pilots (COSTING JOBS), I don't buy it.
It's been pointed on multiple times since this topic has come to surface....Old UAL pilots have every right to be 'pist' and upset about the pathetic pay rates that their BK CBA has brought to the table.....but on the same flip of the coin.....CAL pilots also have every right to display their discontent in being 'carved out' of a pay-rate in our future CBA (which CAN/most likely will have implications on future SLI per the use of JCBA in arbitration) that JNC is working towards.
In the end, if what's good for one side should be good for the other in any type of 'combine' agreement......Correct??? After all, it's a "Merger of Equals" as Jeff & company have profess all along.
10-26-2010, 10:39 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
By the way, did you happen to have a date that the letter was written? I didn't see it in your post.
10-26-2010, 10:43 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
These questions are pasted from another post I made. Nobody has responded to this yet...but there have been several responses to other posts. I think the issue that the following questions illuminate are VERY important to our pilot group and should be discussed. So, lets hear some facts and opinions....
Somebody PLEASE answer these questions.
If UAL buys the A380, what would the pay be under the current CAL contract??
WHEN UAL takes delivery of the A350s, what is the pay under the current UAL contract??
What does the 787 pay under the current CAL contract??
What will the 787 pay under the current UAL contract??
Somebody PLEASE answer these questions.
If UAL buys the A380, what would the pay be under the current CAL contract??
WHEN UAL takes delivery of the A350s, what is the pay under the current UAL contract??
What does the 787 pay under the current CAL contract??
What will the 787 pay under the current UAL contract??
10-26-2010, 10:49 AM
#25
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
That is simply FALSE. I haven't seen anything from our LEC/MEC that even remotely resembles the pointless tripe from the EWR LEC Capt rep. I haven't even HEARD anything like that from my own reps over the phone! If I did, you can bet that I would tell them to CEASE AND DESIST the public clown act!! I will tell you with ALL honestly that I haven't talked to a single UA pilot that is looking to gain seniority at the expense of you guys. Everyone wants a FAIR integration with little or no drama. But not Jayson apparently.... Say what you want, but he is doing a great disservice to all CAL pilots by broadcasting his testosterone for all to see. If you want to convey a message in private, do it over the phone or in person. Any expectation that his written word would not get to UAL pilots is naive at best, deceitful at worst.
Wow....Sounds like Marco is attempting to 'stoke a little fire' in his troops as Jayson has. One could easily 'say' Marco's bravado resembles that of Jayson. Could someone on the CAL side take this as a "Testosterone Broadcasting" for all to see here on APC??? I guess the opinion of such is "all in the eye of the beholder".
Let's get down to business & quit the petty c**p.
'Nuff said....
10-26-2010, 10:58 AM
#26
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: CAL
Posts: 14
Since that's the best you could come up with, you only bolstered my claim. Marco is actually my LEC rep and I have no problem with that letter. The overall tone of the letter was WAY different than Baron's letter.
By the way, did you happen to have a date that the letter was written? I didn't see it in your post.
By the way, did you happen to have a date that the letter was written? I didn't see it in your post.
I don't have the exact date on that message but it is sometime between 5/2/10 and 5/19/10.
MW
10-26-2010, 10:59 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
From CAL EWR LEC Capt Rep:
From UAL DCA F/O Rep:
The two are NOT the same. As you say... Nuff said.
I ALREADY said that if my reps (Marco is one of them) wrote what Baron wrote (Especially WHEN he wrote it) I would call him immediately and express my serious disapproval.
Today is Sunday, October 3, 2010, and we have four items for your review.
Item 1: Continental is an Industry Leader
We would like to start this week’s Magenta Line with a reminder to all of what Continental Airlines brings to the table in this merger. We hear persistent rumors that there are those who have not kept up with history, who continue to think of Continental as primarily a 737 “feeder” type of airline, rather than the global industry leader. The following is a dose of reality:
Our New York/Newark hub serves the second largest number of nonstop destinations of any U.S. Hub, right behind DAL's ATL hub, which is the world's largest. The latest figures from ALPA E&FA showed our EWR hub with 141 nonstop destinations, while the leading UAL hub at ORD only serves 90. Additionally, our EWR domicile, along with our IAH domicile, will continue to be the largest two domiciles in the combined system after the merger is complete.
Continental continues to board more NYC total passengers (EWR, JFK, LGA combined) than any other airline. DAL is second, JBLU is third, and AA is fourth. Even our primary Express carrier, Continental Express, is #5 in total NYC traffic. Continental is also of course the leader in NYC international passengers. UAL is nowhere to be found among the leaders. As measured by both nonstop destinations and total passengers boarded, Continental remains the leader in the largest, most important, and most lucrative air travel market in North America.
We bring a new fleet to the merger, with clean, fuel efficient aircraft. There is a very practical reason why our livery was chosen for the merged carrier – we brought most of the new, clean, fuel efficient aircraft to the party. Not only is the average age of our fleet much younger than most of the rest of the industry's, but our aircraft also tend to have much larger powerplants, higher gross weights and greater range, particularly our 757's and 777's. For example, United's low gross weight 757's and 777's, with their small Pratt and Whitney engines, cannot generate nearly as much revenue as ours do. We fly 757's all across higher yield markets such as Ireland, the UK, and northern and western Europe, from NEW YORK. We fly 777's mostly on long haul and ultra long haul flights to Delhi, Mumbai, Tel Aviv, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, etc, from NEW YORK.
Finally, a recent USAToday article showed four different ratings of airline quality. Continental was the # 1 global “legacy” airline in all four airline quality ratings.
Continental has remained an industry leader - by any measure - for the past decade. We should all be proud to be Continental pilots. Let us hope that the new United can rise to Continental's level via this merger.
Item 1: Continental is an Industry Leader
We would like to start this week’s Magenta Line with a reminder to all of what Continental Airlines brings to the table in this merger. We hear persistent rumors that there are those who have not kept up with history, who continue to think of Continental as primarily a 737 “feeder” type of airline, rather than the global industry leader. The following is a dose of reality:
Our New York/Newark hub serves the second largest number of nonstop destinations of any U.S. Hub, right behind DAL's ATL hub, which is the world's largest. The latest figures from ALPA E&FA showed our EWR hub with 141 nonstop destinations, while the leading UAL hub at ORD only serves 90. Additionally, our EWR domicile, along with our IAH domicile, will continue to be the largest two domiciles in the combined system after the merger is complete.
Continental continues to board more NYC total passengers (EWR, JFK, LGA combined) than any other airline. DAL is second, JBLU is third, and AA is fourth. Even our primary Express carrier, Continental Express, is #5 in total NYC traffic. Continental is also of course the leader in NYC international passengers. UAL is nowhere to be found among the leaders. As measured by both nonstop destinations and total passengers boarded, Continental remains the leader in the largest, most important, and most lucrative air travel market in North America.
We bring a new fleet to the merger, with clean, fuel efficient aircraft. There is a very practical reason why our livery was chosen for the merged carrier – we brought most of the new, clean, fuel efficient aircraft to the party. Not only is the average age of our fleet much younger than most of the rest of the industry's, but our aircraft also tend to have much larger powerplants, higher gross weights and greater range, particularly our 757's and 777's. For example, United's low gross weight 757's and 777's, with their small Pratt and Whitney engines, cannot generate nearly as much revenue as ours do. We fly 757's all across higher yield markets such as Ireland, the UK, and northern and western Europe, from NEW YORK. We fly 777's mostly on long haul and ultra long haul flights to Delhi, Mumbai, Tel Aviv, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, etc, from NEW YORK.
Finally, a recent USAToday article showed four different ratings of airline quality. Continental was the # 1 global “legacy” airline in all four airline quality ratings.
Continental has remained an industry leader - by any measure - for the past decade. We should all be proud to be Continental pilots. Let us hope that the new United can rise to Continental's level via this merger.
At this point, no one has any idea how a seniority list integration (SLI) will look. We have no idea how the furloughed pilots will be integrated. I do know that we are United Airlines pilots and I will advocate for each and every one of you. There is no seniority list yet. Anything that you may have seen thus far is not rooted in fact. While the MEC and the line pilots will not vote on the final SLI product, I assure you that your leaders understand that we bring tremendous corporate assets to this deal. Just from the pilot standpoint we bring the best career expectations, the biggest pilot group, and a far larger cross-section of heavy airplanes to this merger. Whether the SLI is decided in negotiations or in front of an arbitrator’s panel, know that your Merger Committee is strong and will fight this fight for all of us.
I ALREADY said that if my reps (Marco is one of them) wrote what Baron wrote (Especially WHEN he wrote it) I would call him immediately and express my serious disapproval.
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
Sorry, I didn't look very hard. But if you don't think Marco was trying to do the same thing as Jayson, think again. He is stating that he is proud of United and being a United pilot and that his sole responsibility is to that of United pilots. Doesn't sound much different than what Jayson is trying to say in my view.
I don't have the exact date on that message but it is sometime between 5/2/10 and 5/19/10.
MW
I don't have the exact date on that message but it is sometime between 5/2/10 and 5/19/10.
MW
If Marco EVER said he is 'proud' of United I'd personally kick his ass
. He said what he said....I work for you only, and I'll do my job appropriately. IMO it was the exact right thing to say after the merger was announced. AGAIN, if he wrote, today, what Baron wrote, I'd be on the phone with him in a heartbeat. Who the F*CK cares about shiny airplanes and corporate ass kissing USA Today articles??? He sounds like a tool who is in over his head.FWIW, I posted a mature, reasonable reply/commentary on his ML to him on this very forum. He has not responded.
10-26-2010, 11:14 AM
#29
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Give it a shot for you......
Somebody PLEASE answer these questions.
If UAL buys the A380, what would the pay be under the current CAL contract??
There are NO mention of orders (as of today) for the A380 from CAL or UAL. IF the JCBA is structure w/o A380 language written within, then if the JCBA is ratified, and there happens to be a run on A380s, then a side-letter would have to be hammered out with Pay-Rates if standing provisions were not 'pre-laid' with this/or the standing JCBA.
WHEN UAL takes delivery of the A350s, what is the pay under the current UAL contract??
Since you are 'presently' a UAL pilot under the present AKA CURRENT UAL CBA, I'd hope you would know where to find that info. Personally and opinion only.....UAL's A350 order is a bull**** order that will never be collected/delivered on. Only was placed as leverage for the B787 Orders that you guys were supposed to be getting in 2016 or later.
What does the 787 pay under the current CAL contract??
It will be WB pay as we know.
What will the 787 pay under the current UAL contract??
So there is no confusion, please refer to the answer given to your second question above.
If UAL buys the A380, what would the pay be under the current CAL contract??
There are NO mention of orders (as of today) for the A380 from CAL or UAL. IF the JCBA is structure w/o A380 language written within, then if the JCBA is ratified, and there happens to be a run on A380s, then a side-letter would have to be hammered out with Pay-Rates if standing provisions were not 'pre-laid' with this/or the standing JCBA.
WHEN UAL takes delivery of the A350s, what is the pay under the current UAL contract??
Since you are 'presently' a UAL pilot under the present AKA CURRENT UAL CBA, I'd hope you would know where to find that info. Personally and opinion only.....UAL's A350 order is a bull**** order that will never be collected/delivered on. Only was placed as leverage for the B787 Orders that you guys were supposed to be getting in 2016 or later.
What does the 787 pay under the current CAL contract??
It will be WB pay as we know.
What will the 787 pay under the current UAL contract??
So there is no confusion, please refer to the answer given to your second question above.
10-26-2010, 11:16 AM
#30
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
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