Magenta Line - Monday, October 25, 2010
10-27-2010, 10:08 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 73 CA EWR
Posts: 514
Nope, I'm just sick of hearing all the moaning and groaning about poor us, how we didn't want this, and we are going to get shafted. The last thing I want is to show up for work two years from now and hear it for a 4 day id.
No one knows how this is going to turn out. For those who say you can either chose A or B, or say this is a good deal for you and here's why cause me to scratch my head.
There really is no validity in we are better than you arguments. We are simply a bunch of pilots trying to better ourselves. I would wager, that if we all piled into a room with a drink of our choice, we would find more in common than differences. In the end, we will look back on this merger as a minor speed bump in our career.
I simply want this to be over so I can plan ahead until the next manufactured crisis hits us in the face.
No one knows how this is going to turn out. For those who say you can either chose A or B, or say this is a good deal for you and here's why cause me to scratch my head.
There really is no validity in we are better than you arguments. We are simply a bunch of pilots trying to better ourselves. I would wager, that if we all piled into a room with a drink of our choice, we would find more in common than differences. In the end, we will look back on this merger as a minor speed bump in our career.
I simply want this to be over so I can plan ahead until the next manufactured crisis hits us in the face.
10-27-2010, 10:20 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Looking forward to getting this thing done and moving on. All this debating is pointless. UAL brings hubs in 4 of the top 10 O&D destinations in this country along with the largest Pacific presence with widebody aircraft to serve them. CAL brings a fuel efficient fleet of new aircraft with an order book for a lot more to the table with 2 hubs in the top 5 markets for air travel and a huge Trans-Atlantic and Latin America presence. I think the 747 should pay more than a 777 personally. I trust that the joint negotiating committee will get this right and we will end up with a contract we all can be proud of. When it is all said and done, we will be the largest airline in the world with 747's, 777's, 767's 757's, A320/319's and a ****load of 737's with domiciles in LAX/SFO/IAH/ORD/IAD/EWR/CLE/DEN. Compare that with the world's second largest carrier whose pilots have NYC/ATL/CVG/DTW/MEM/MSP/SLC/LAX as their choices of domicile. I for one, recognize that UAL brings the better bases to the table. UAL brings a lot of widebodies to the table as well. I do feel CAL had the momentum going forward and if you look at what our stand alone fleet would have looked like in 10 years you'd see a lot more widebodies than today. That doesn't really matter today though. Let the elected reps handle the negotiating and lets move on here.
Best post on here by far!
Only thing I would like to add under the "When it is all said and done" list would be ALL the RJ's in OUR colors being flown by OUR pilots!
SP
10-27-2010, 03:07 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
Not to wizz in the punch, but did I read that CAL pays a different scale on the 757 and the 767, and a different scale on the different 737s??? If so, how can you say that the 777 and the 747 should pay the same?? I don't get it. I'm not trying to be a tool and mess up all the newly found bonhomie, I'm just a moron and subscribe to the old bigger airplane, bigger paycheck mentality. As I said before, a guy on the triple ought to be able to bid to the 400 AND to expect a raise.
(Hell, the 777 ought to pay more than the 400 when you consider the gymnastics your gut will do after you lose an engine when halfway across the Pacific! In the 400, adjust cruise MACH, balance fuel and find another sudoku. But in the 777....do about 40 checklists and then sweat like a rapist in San Quentin for a few hours).
As I understand it, the CAL guys want banding so that they can fly the 400 (eventually) and fear that without banding that they will be fenced out??
I dunno, but it seems to me that when looking at career expectations that the 400 wouldn't be an option for a CAL guy anyway, so to ME its not a big deal.
If the shoe were on the other foot, and CAL had the 400 and UAL did not, it wouldn't bother me if I was fenced off the equipment. I say that with total sincerity. Sure I'd be disappointed, but who brought the fat girl to the party?
If there's another type above mine which pays more, then I ought to enjoy higher seniority in my equipment because of the higher paying airframe above mine. I ought to have more horsepower when monthly bidding, vacation etc... right? In this way I will enjoy higher QOL due to being higher up the ladder on my equipment.
I don't know, are the DAL guys fenced off of NWAs 400 fleet? TWA off of Americans 777s?
This post suffers from some PUI, so my logic is probably skewed. Refill required.
(Hell, the 777 ought to pay more than the 400 when you consider the gymnastics your gut will do after you lose an engine when halfway across the Pacific! In the 400, adjust cruise MACH, balance fuel and find another sudoku. But in the 777....do about 40 checklists and then sweat like a rapist in San Quentin for a few hours).
As I understand it, the CAL guys want banding so that they can fly the 400 (eventually) and fear that without banding that they will be fenced out??
I dunno, but it seems to me that when looking at career expectations that the 400 wouldn't be an option for a CAL guy anyway, so to ME its not a big deal.
If the shoe were on the other foot, and CAL had the 400 and UAL did not, it wouldn't bother me if I was fenced off the equipment. I say that with total sincerity. Sure I'd be disappointed, but who brought the fat girl to the party?
If there's another type above mine which pays more, then I ought to enjoy higher seniority in my equipment because of the higher paying airframe above mine. I ought to have more horsepower when monthly bidding, vacation etc... right? In this way I will enjoy higher QOL due to being higher up the ladder on my equipment.
I don't know, are the DAL guys fenced off of NWAs 400 fleet? TWA off of Americans 777s?
This post suffers from some PUI, so my logic is probably skewed. Refill required.
Last edited by oldmako; 10-27-2010 at 06:35 PM. Reason: Clarity
10-27-2010, 05:14 PM
#104
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
I know exactly who my new CEO is. FWIW, I don't believe much of anything that comes out of any senior executives mouth... About the only group that has less credibility in their predictions is 'us' pilots
, so forgive me if I don't take you at your word.
Let's be honest, you guys are 'predicting' the parking of the 400 only to support your argument that we shouldn't make the 400 a separate (higher) pay rate. The 400 will continue to fly until an aircraft (that is not needed for growth) comes online that can replace it. That'll be a while. The 400s predominately fly the Pacific...I think we can agree that UAL is doing quite well in Pacific revenues. Why should Smisek be unhappy with that?
This is a quote from Smisek during the 3Q Earnings Conf Call:
This doesn't sound like a guy that is planning to park the 400s.
, so forgive me if I don't take you at your word.Let's be honest, you guys are 'predicting' the parking of the 400 only to support your argument that we shouldn't make the 400 a separate (higher) pay rate. The 400 will continue to fly until an aircraft (that is not needed for growth) comes online that can replace it. That'll be a while. The 400s predominately fly the Pacific...I think we can agree that UAL is doing quite well in Pacific revenues. Why should Smisek be unhappy with that?
This is a quote from Smisek during the 3Q Earnings Conf Call:
This doesn't sound like a guy that is planning to park the 400s.
I know that's not what you or I want to here, but it happens to be true.
10-27-2010, 05:28 PM
#105
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: B737
Posts: 12
Come on...
I guess you forgot to read my previous post where I said I'd LOVE for the 747 to stay and for us to take delivery of the 350. The larger the airframes the better. I happen to know our management team better than most of the UAL types on here and they do not like the 747 or Airbus products.
I know that's not what you or I want to here, but it happens to be true.
I know that's not what you or I want to here, but it happens to be true.
off the soap box, rant off...
Hotwing
737 FO CAL. (United Continental Holdings)
10-28-2010, 03:38 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 168
I am a CAL pilot and I know some of our execs, not just mid level managers in the training dept... We are keeping the airbuses and taking the orders as of this week... the 350 will show up and so will more airbus stuff... We need to quit worrying about what is going to happen based on our beliefs and start supporting our union and get everyone on the same page and stop this crap of he said, she said, we will do this, we will do that... We have to be shoulder to shoulder... We are one... Division will not work here... It is very entertaining to read that CAL will do this and UAL will do that coming from pilots... We dont know what we are going to do except, we are going to protect scope to the best of our abilities, increase our working abilities, pay, benefits, etc... Let's worry about things that we can control rather than wasting more f'n time and energy on stuff we hav NO CONTROL over...
off the soap box, rant off...
Hotwing
737 FO CAL. (United Continental Holdings)
The Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) crafted a Compensation proposal this week that recognizes the value of the pilots’ contributions to the synergies of the merged United Airlines. The Compensation proposal, while yet to be passed to management, would provide the 12,500 United pilots industry leading compensation. The JNC proposal has been briefed to the respective MECs of United and Continental. The JNC is continuing to finalize the remaining Sections of the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) for its next meeting with the Company the week of October 25.
10-28-2010, 07:11 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
Mako,
I don't think most CAL guys give a cr@p about The Whale. Yeah it would be nice to be able to fly it, but I see no reason to waste our negotiating capital on fighting a fence. Now if you are arguing that future orders to replace the 400 should be fenced then we would need to talk. Besides I wouldn't be able to hold a SYD/MEL trip until at least 2050 based on what I've heard. No chance for Victoria Bitter, no need for me to fly The Whale.
I wish we would just call a spade a spade on this thread. My own take besides the pay is that UAL MEC wants it seperate to further it's case in front of list arbitrary. CAL MEC wants to avoid that. In the end, let the reps and committee members fight this battle. Don't begrudge anyone for arguing there best position.
I'm frustrated with any delay because long ago I reached my boiling point with the abortion of a contract that we've worked under. Now I get to watch Jeffery thumb his nose at me by deploying the shiny jets into CAL hubs. Enough of this bullsh!t FUPM...
I don't think most CAL guys give a cr@p about The Whale. Yeah it would be nice to be able to fly it, but I see no reason to waste our negotiating capital on fighting a fence. Now if you are arguing that future orders to replace the 400 should be fenced then we would need to talk. Besides I wouldn't be able to hold a SYD/MEL trip until at least 2050 based on what I've heard. No chance for Victoria Bitter, no need for me to fly The Whale.
I wish we would just call a spade a spade on this thread. My own take besides the pay is that UAL MEC wants it seperate to further it's case in front of list arbitrary. CAL MEC wants to avoid that. In the end, let the reps and committee members fight this battle. Don't begrudge anyone for arguing there best position.
I'm frustrated with any delay because long ago I reached my boiling point with the abortion of a contract that we've worked under. Now I get to watch Jeffery thumb his nose at me by deploying the shiny jets into CAL hubs. Enough of this bullsh!t FUPM...
10-28-2010, 07:17 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,905
Unless you know something we don't. As of last week, we were told that the United MEC had still not agreed to the compensation proposal. So I am not sure that it has been passed to management yet. Maybe it was all resolved when they started negotiating again on Monday.
10-28-2010, 07:20 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,905
Mako,
I don't think most CAL guys give a cr@p about The Whale. Yeah it would be nice to be able to fly it, but I see no reason to waste our negotiating capital on fighting a fence. Now if you are arguing that future orders to replace the 400 should be fenced then we would need to talk. Besides I wouldn't be able to hold a SYD/MEL trip until at least 2050 based on what I've heard. No chance for Victoria Bitter, no need for me to fly The Whale.
I wish we would just call a spade a spade on this thread. My own take besides the pay is that UAL MEC wants it seperate to further it's case in front of list arbitrary. CAL MEC wants to avoid that. In the end, let the reps and committee members fight this battle. Don't begrudge anyone for arguing there best position.
I'm frustrated with any delay because long ago I reached my boiling point with the abortion of a contract that we've worked under. Now I get to watch Jeffery thumb his nose at me by deploying the shiny jets into CAL hubs. Enough of this bullsh!t FUPM...
I don't think most CAL guys give a cr@p about The Whale. Yeah it would be nice to be able to fly it, but I see no reason to waste our negotiating capital on fighting a fence. Now if you are arguing that future orders to replace the 400 should be fenced then we would need to talk. Besides I wouldn't be able to hold a SYD/MEL trip until at least 2050 based on what I've heard. No chance for Victoria Bitter, no need for me to fly The Whale.
I wish we would just call a spade a spade on this thread. My own take besides the pay is that UAL MEC wants it seperate to further it's case in front of list arbitrary. CAL MEC wants to avoid that. In the end, let the reps and committee members fight this battle. Don't begrudge anyone for arguing there best position.
I'm frustrated with any delay because long ago I reached my boiling point with the abortion of a contract that we've worked under. Now I get to watch Jeffery thumb his nose at me by deploying the shiny jets into CAL hubs. Enough of this bullsh!t FUPM...
10-28-2010, 07:30 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,905
Originally Posted by oldmako
Not to wizz in the punch, but did I read that CAL pays a different scale on the 757 and the 767, and a different scale on the different 737s??? If so, how can you say that the 777 and the 747 should pay the same?? I don't get it. I'm not trying to be a tool and mess up all the newly found bonhomie, I'm just a moron and subscribe to the old bigger airplane, bigger paycheck mentality. As I said before, a guy on the triple ought to be able to bid to the 400 AND to expect a raise.
I suppose we could always make up a new pay category for the 747:
ELHWB - Extremely Large Humped Wide Body
(Hell, the 777 ought to pay more than the 400 when you consider the gymnastics your gut will do after you lose an engine when halfway across the Pacific! In the 400, adjust cruise MACH, balance fuel and find another sudoku. But in the 777....do about 40 checklists and then sweat like a rapist in San Quentin for a few hours).
As I understand it, the CAL guys want banding so that they can fly the 400 (eventually) and fear that without banding that they will be fenced out??
I dunno, but it seems to me that when looking at career expectations that the 400 wouldn't be an option for a CAL guy anyway, so to ME its not a big deal.
I dunno, but it seems to me that when looking at career expectations that the 400 wouldn't be an option for a CAL guy anyway, so to ME its not a big deal.
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