Magenta Line - Monday, October 25, 2010
10-27-2010, 07:25 AM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
IAHB756,
All good points and nicely written. Some random thoughts which reading this thread has brought up:
99 percent of the guys I fly with didn't want the merger, but knew it was coming and have decided to just go with the flow. Tilton has beaten that drum since day one. We were able to kill the initial USAir deal long ago. The second one was a just an idiotic idea and the third a smoke screen. UAL-CAL has been tiltons wet dream all along. Its has been obvious to most guys at UAL, particularly the guys who got whacked. The guppy debacle was his crowning jewel and his final finger to the UAL pilots. The guy is just evil.
As far as I am concerned, this merger is potentially a good thing even though I personally will (most likely) get totally hosed on seniority. But, there isn't ONE thing I can do to affect the outcome, so I'll put my energy into the contract. A sweet agreement will go a long way to soften the SLI blow.
If we HAD to merge, then I believe that for most of us at UAL, CAL was the best choice. Likewise I believe for CAL, that UAL was the best choice. The lack of overlap should save many jobs, with the painful exception of those on our side who are already under the bus.
Yes we have our egomaniac blowhards just as you have yours, but I don't see many guys looking down their noses at CAL as some here would have you believe.
If Smisek chooses to, he can really create a juggernaut of an airline and that will go along way to smooth this "my dick is bigger than yours" nonsense....we'll ALL have massive johnsons! I'd love to see us re-open HNL to tie the west coast bases and Guam together. While I hate the guppy, at this point in my life Guam sounds pretty good.
The important thing is scope first, cash and QOL second.
I read a great article written by one of UALs retirees about why pay banding is a bad idea from a pilots standpoint. His argument was quite convincing and he made many points not brought up in this thread. If I can find it, I'll post it.
The 400s are serious money making machines even with the fuel flow. I for one want them to stick around, and to pay more. 777 F/O and want a raise? Bid the 400!
BTW, do you guys fly the 57-67 as a common fleet? Is the pay the same?
All good points and nicely written. Some random thoughts which reading this thread has brought up:
99 percent of the guys I fly with didn't want the merger, but knew it was coming and have decided to just go with the flow. Tilton has beaten that drum since day one. We were able to kill the initial USAir deal long ago. The second one was a just an idiotic idea and the third a smoke screen. UAL-CAL has been tiltons wet dream all along. Its has been obvious to most guys at UAL, particularly the guys who got whacked. The guppy debacle was his crowning jewel and his final finger to the UAL pilots. The guy is just evil.
As far as I am concerned, this merger is potentially a good thing even though I personally will (most likely) get totally hosed on seniority. But, there isn't ONE thing I can do to affect the outcome, so I'll put my energy into the contract. A sweet agreement will go a long way to soften the SLI blow.
If we HAD to merge, then I believe that for most of us at UAL, CAL was the best choice. Likewise I believe for CAL, that UAL was the best choice. The lack of overlap should save many jobs, with the painful exception of those on our side who are already under the bus.
Yes we have our egomaniac blowhards just as you have yours, but I don't see many guys looking down their noses at CAL as some here would have you believe.
If Smisek chooses to, he can really create a juggernaut of an airline and that will go along way to smooth this "my dick is bigger than yours" nonsense....we'll ALL have massive johnsons! I'd love to see us re-open HNL to tie the west coast bases and Guam together. While I hate the guppy, at this point in my life Guam sounds pretty good.
The important thing is scope first, cash and QOL second.
I read a great article written by one of UALs retirees about why pay banding is a bad idea from a pilots standpoint. His argument was quite convincing and he made many points not brought up in this thread. If I can find it, I'll post it.
The 400s are serious money making machines even with the fuel flow. I for one want them to stick around, and to pay more. 777 F/O and want a raise? Bid the 400!
BTW, do you guys fly the 57-67 as a common fleet? Is the pay the same?
10-27-2010, 07:35 AM
#92
Fore!
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 756 F/O
Posts: 505
That's all we've heard, what complete "idiots Tilton and crowd is..."
I personally wouldn't place a lot of stock in how much the company has spent on anything recently as an indicator of how committed they are to that asset or path. If they did it the way it has traditionally been done from the CAL side, the company didn't pay for the interiors anyhow. More likely they leaned on the bank or lease company to put in the new interior or find the hull in the desert. Did you get a chance to see any receipts?
If that's not how they played it, no wonder you guys all claim you wanted out from under Tilton. I just caution you are getting what you asked for.
I personally wouldn't place a lot of stock in how much the company has spent on anything recently as an indicator of how committed they are to that asset or path. If they did it the way it has traditionally been done from the CAL side, the company didn't pay for the interiors anyhow. More likely they leaned on the bank or lease company to put in the new interior or find the hull in the desert. Did you get a chance to see any receipts?
If that's not how they played it, no wonder you guys all claim you wanted out from under Tilton. I just caution you are getting what you asked for.
PS. I did want Tilton gone(Napoleon complex) but I also didn't want Jeff.
10-27-2010, 07:38 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,905
IAHB756,
All good points and nicely written. Some random thoughts which reading this thread has brought up:
99 percent of the guys I fly with didn't want the merger, but knew it was coming and have decided to just go with the flow. Tilton has beaten that drum since day one. We were able to kill the initial USAir deal long ago. The second one was a just an idiotic idea and the third a smoke screen. UAL-CAL has been tiltons wet dream all along. Its has been obvious to most guys at UAL, particularly the guys who got whacked. The guppy debacle was his crowning jewel and his final finger to the UAL pilots. The guy is just evil.
As far as I am concerned, this merger is potentially a good thing even though I personally will (most likely) get totally hosed on seniority. But, there isn't ONE thing I can do to affect the outcome, so I'll put my energy into the contract. A sweet agreement will go a long way to soften the SLI blow.
If we HAD to merge, then I believe that for most of us at UAL, CAL was the best choice. Likewise I believe for CAL, that UAL was the best choice. The lack of overlap should save many jobs, with the painful exception of those on our side who are already under the bus.
Yes we have our egomaniac blowhards just as you have yours, but I don't see many guys looking down their noses at CAL as some here would have you believe.
If Smisek chooses to, he can really create a juggernaut of an airline and that will go along way to smooth this "my dick is bigger than yours" nonsense....we'll ALL have massive johnsons! I'd love to see us re-open HNL to tie the west coast bases and Guam together. While I hate the guppy, at this point in my life Guam sounds pretty good.
The important thing is scope first, cash and QOL second.
I read a great article written by one of UALs retirees about why pay banding is a bad idea from a pilots standpoint. His argument was quite convincing and he made many points not brought up in this thread. If I can find it, I'll post it.
The 400s are serious money making machines even with the fuel flow. I for one want them to stick around, and to pay more. 777 F/O and want a raise? Bid the 400!
BTW, do you guys fly the 57-67 as a common fleet? Is the pay the same?
All good points and nicely written. Some random thoughts which reading this thread has brought up:
99 percent of the guys I fly with didn't want the merger, but knew it was coming and have decided to just go with the flow. Tilton has beaten that drum since day one. We were able to kill the initial USAir deal long ago. The second one was a just an idiotic idea and the third a smoke screen. UAL-CAL has been tiltons wet dream all along. Its has been obvious to most guys at UAL, particularly the guys who got whacked. The guppy debacle was his crowning jewel and his final finger to the UAL pilots. The guy is just evil.
As far as I am concerned, this merger is potentially a good thing even though I personally will (most likely) get totally hosed on seniority. But, there isn't ONE thing I can do to affect the outcome, so I'll put my energy into the contract. A sweet agreement will go a long way to soften the SLI blow.
If we HAD to merge, then I believe that for most of us at UAL, CAL was the best choice. Likewise I believe for CAL, that UAL was the best choice. The lack of overlap should save many jobs, with the painful exception of those on our side who are already under the bus.
Yes we have our egomaniac blowhards just as you have yours, but I don't see many guys looking down their noses at CAL as some here would have you believe.
If Smisek chooses to, he can really create a juggernaut of an airline and that will go along way to smooth this "my dick is bigger than yours" nonsense....we'll ALL have massive johnsons! I'd love to see us re-open HNL to tie the west coast bases and Guam together. While I hate the guppy, at this point in my life Guam sounds pretty good.
The important thing is scope first, cash and QOL second.
I read a great article written by one of UALs retirees about why pay banding is a bad idea from a pilots standpoint. His argument was quite convincing and he made many points not brought up in this thread. If I can find it, I'll post it.
The 400s are serious money making machines even with the fuel flow. I for one want them to stick around, and to pay more. 777 F/O and want a raise? Bid the 400!
BTW, do you guys fly the 57-67 as a common fleet? Is the pay the same?
I have said the same thing all along: I cannot control the SLI and therefore don't even dwell on what will happen. Seriously, I haven't put any thought into it since the merger announcement. I focus solely on the JCBA, scope and the pay/QOL issues.
Ah, the UA way? 57-67? LOL. At CO we use 75-76.
In reality on the bids it shows B756. It is staffed as a common fleet. The 757 is considered a Large Narrow Body for pay. The 767 is considered a widebody for pay.Those staffed on the 756 are paid a minimum guarantee based on the blended rate of those two. If you are senior enough to fly all WB 76 then you will make more. The same thing happens with our 73s. There are SNB (500s/700s) and LNB (800-900ERs).
10-27-2010, 08:01 AM
#94
Fore!
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 756 F/O
Posts: 505
IAHB756,
All good points and nicely written. Some random thoughts which reading this thread has brought up:
99 percent of the guys I fly with didn't want the merger, but knew it was coming and have decided to just go with the flow. Tilton has beaten that drum since day one. We were able to kill the initial USAir deal long ago. The second one was a just an idiotic idea and the third a smoke screen. UAL-CAL has been tiltons wet dream all along. Its has been obvious to most guys at UAL, particularly the guys who got whacked. The guppy debacle was his crowning jewel and his final finger to the UAL pilots. The guy is just evil.
As far as I am concerned, this merger is potentially a good thing even though I personally will (most likely) get totally hosed on seniority. But, there isn't ONE thing I can do to affect the outcome, so I'll put my energy into the contract. A sweet agreement will go a long way to soften the SLI blow.
If we HAD to merge, then I believe that for most of us at UAL, CAL was the best choice. Likewise I believe for CAL, that UAL was the best choice. The lack of overlap should save many jobs, with the painful exception of those on our side who are already under the bus.
Yes we have our egomaniac blowhards just as you have yours, but I don't see many guys looking down their noses at CAL as some here would have you believe.
If Smisek chooses to, he can really create a juggernaut of an airline and that will go along way to smooth this "my dick is bigger than yours" nonsense....we'll ALL have massive johnsons! I'd love to see us re-open HNL to tie the west coast bases and Guam together. While I hate the guppy, at this point in my life Guam sounds pretty good.
The important thing is scope first, cash and QOL second.
I read a great article written by one of UALs retirees about why pay banding is a bad idea from a pilots standpoint. His argument was quite convincing and he made many points not brought up in this thread. If I can find it, I'll post it.
The 400s are serious money making machines even with the fuel flow. I for one want them to stick around, and to pay more. 777 F/O and want a raise? Bid the 400!
BTW, do you guys fly the 57-67 as a common fleet? Is the pay the same?
All good points and nicely written. Some random thoughts which reading this thread has brought up:
99 percent of the guys I fly with didn't want the merger, but knew it was coming and have decided to just go with the flow. Tilton has beaten that drum since day one. We were able to kill the initial USAir deal long ago. The second one was a just an idiotic idea and the third a smoke screen. UAL-CAL has been tiltons wet dream all along. Its has been obvious to most guys at UAL, particularly the guys who got whacked. The guppy debacle was his crowning jewel and his final finger to the UAL pilots. The guy is just evil.
As far as I am concerned, this merger is potentially a good thing even though I personally will (most likely) get totally hosed on seniority. But, there isn't ONE thing I can do to affect the outcome, so I'll put my energy into the contract. A sweet agreement will go a long way to soften the SLI blow.
If we HAD to merge, then I believe that for most of us at UAL, CAL was the best choice. Likewise I believe for CAL, that UAL was the best choice. The lack of overlap should save many jobs, with the painful exception of those on our side who are already under the bus.
Yes we have our egomaniac blowhards just as you have yours, but I don't see many guys looking down their noses at CAL as some here would have you believe.
If Smisek chooses to, he can really create a juggernaut of an airline and that will go along way to smooth this "my dick is bigger than yours" nonsense....we'll ALL have massive johnsons! I'd love to see us re-open HNL to tie the west coast bases and Guam together. While I hate the guppy, at this point in my life Guam sounds pretty good.
The important thing is scope first, cash and QOL second.
I read a great article written by one of UALs retirees about why pay banding is a bad idea from a pilots standpoint. His argument was quite convincing and he made many points not brought up in this thread. If I can find it, I'll post it.
The 400s are serious money making machines even with the fuel flow. I for one want them to stick around, and to pay more. 777 F/O and want a raise? Bid the 400!
BTW, do you guys fly the 57-67 as a common fleet? Is the pay the same?
10-27-2010, 09:05 AM
#95
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Okay, you win.........how about "MOST" then????? I just wished (and this is from the rumor mill only), they would take us from a standpoint of EQUALS and work from there, rather than "our fleet is larger, therefore we should get more money and more seniority" stuff. THAT is not a way to "work together" in my opinion.
What part is NOT getting through....The CAL pilot group has EVERYTHING to loose, and NOTHING to gain when looking at strictly Unbanding topic as it relates to a JCBA??? As it's been presented, it's NOTHING but a variable that enables one side of the group to 'get a leg up' on the next step of the ALPA agreement process....the SLI!!! ALL 101% of the combine Pilot Group KNOWS DAMN well that the SLI is ending up in Arbitration....and the Unbanded Pay Scale WILL bode/give favor to one side over another merely by one of the pre-determined variables to be considered....."CAREER EXPECTATION".....That variable alone is a proven FACT in the ALPA Policy that has been waived about in Black&White.....hello???
With all the smoke/mirrors psycho babble BS that is being sold from one side of the JNC table to the other between the two pilot groups on this particular topic is getting 'laughable'. It's simple, this is something that I personally don't see our MEC Chair (nor the majority of the council) budging on.
No matter how much lipstick....makeup....and hair spray Wendy and her gang attempt to put on this "Pig" (Unbanded Pay 'facade') to dress it up....at the end of the day in Denver.....It's still just that, a "PIG". QUIT trying to act like this is a GOOD thing for EVERYONE. Need a solution?? Have it and drop the fences.....or Don't get it and put up fences.
JP & the NC has voiced their strong concerns/opposition about the issue, and that's how it stands. There's no second guessing "if it's going to fly" as it is currently presented. He has set that record straight last week.
The word 'around camp', the most classic 'solution' offered by the UAL JC in regard to this topic (& paraphrasing)...."Well, we CAN still use the Unbanded Pay concept, we'll just ask the Tri-Arbitration panel (post JCBA) during the SLI hearing to "NOT" weigh the UAL Pilot's career expectations in the SLI on the Unbanded/higher fenced category for the B747"!!!.....It's been said 'around the camp' that CAL's MEC/NC said, "RIGHT"!!!! That's going to hold up like a Pixie Dust Fairy Fart in an F-5 Twister......"Not guna happen".
10-27-2010, 09:41 AM
#99
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Just choose to speak with my P2P Pilots, talk to Reps, make time to listen to Town Hall Calls - Or listen to the recorded webcasts later....even read what's put out in writing.
It's all good.....You should look into it friend.
10-27-2010, 10:01 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 230
No one knows how this is going to turn out. For those who say you can either chose A or B, or say this is a good deal for you and here's why cause me to scratch my head.
There really is no validity in we are better than you arguments. We are simply a bunch of pilots trying to better ourselves. I would wager, that if we all piled into a room with a drink of our choice, we would find more in common than differences. In the end, we will look back on this merger as a minor speed bump in our career.
I simply want this to be over so I can plan ahead until the next manufactured crisis hits us in the face.
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