Originally Posted by Savecalpilots

A specific target? Okay. How about the fact that not one rep has seen any of the completed sections of the contract, specifically R/I and scope. What is Jay Pierce hiding? Back in December 2009, we had an R/I section which included at least some chance for those of us who lost half our pensions to at least recoop part of what we lost. We are hearing rumors that entire section has now been scrapped. It has been reduced to nothing/ no improvements. The lawyer during the recent town hall said they couldn't show the reps the completed sections because it would open up a can of worms. In other words, they would waste valuable time rehashing completed sections. Seems to me you want this JCBA as close to perfect as possible. The time to ask for everything lost is now, not later. I just don't get the rational behind waiting for the reps to see all the completed sections. You either use the time now, or waste it later. I know the UAL pilots are also hurting as far as their pensions. It's time to bring back improvements to the pensions we have earned and ensure those junior pilot will have a pension to look forward to. Hearing the R/I section was scrapped will cause me to vote no. That doesn't mean I won't look at it. The company wants synergies? I want my damn pension restored. THE LOAN IS DUE! Also...BULLET POINTS = NO VOTE

Originally Posted by luv757

As to what is Jay Pierce hiding? Like him or hate him right now he is hiding nothing. He knows what the expectations of the group are vis a vis scope so it is going to be really hard to hide behind any TA that doesn't strengthen scope. That's not some tidbit that can easily be slipped past us in a section that nobody looks at. I'm not a loyalist to Pierce, any of the reps, or even ALPA but I also don't believe in lynching anyone til I see a reason to get out the rope and start tying the knot. I'm not advocating blind faith in any of the above entities but you can't advocate blind hatred either. Show me the product.

It's make ready, take aim, and then fire. We can make ready. Hell we can take aim, but let's hold our fire until we have a reason to shoot and something to shoot at. Show me the product.

Originally Posted by EWRflyr

Unfortunately, here at CAL, it's almost always been fire, aim, and ask questions later no matter the consequences. A rep or MEC officer can't be in office more than a month and people are calling for heads to roll. Someone here is always ticked off whoever is in office and willing to burn the house down when their view isn't the majority. I'm glad they do, but why would any pilot at CAL be willing to step up to represent or help this pilot group with all the burning in effigy that almost every volunteer gets? Accuse, accuse, accuse and hope something sticks is the standard play.

I came from a small-jet carrier and never did I see the childish behavior amongst adults that I see among the supposed "real" pilots here at a major.

Originally Posted by Skybo

When will a rep ever promise something and actually deliver it? There are those of us who say nothing and accept our fate. Others want more. Can you blame those who speak out for wanting more from an organization which has a spotty record of representating? Thank God for those who do speak out. Maybe by exposing the flaws, we will end up with a better contract. If you want to sit there like a couch potato, go ahead. You will have no one to blame but yourself.

Originally Posted by Rocketiii

It looks like the psychotic rantings of John Ringel. No fact or explanation will suffice.

Originally Posted by EWRflyr

No couch potato here when it comes to my career. I to go meetings, read all the information that comes out, ask the questions that need to be asked. I am not naive at all when it comes to the workings of the union. It is one thing for pilots to seek out information and challenge our representatives to make sure their views are heard. It is something completely different when all the other Oliver Stone conspiracy BS is thrown about at every opportunity by certain pilots at CAL.

Let me be clear, and to use an analogy: I don't think these pilots are any less "patriotic" or sincere than others in their desires for all CAL pilots to come out ahead. It is the methods and the words that are used which I found counterproductive and detrimental to our goals.

Originally Posted by Captain X

or little vinny scotto

Originally Posted by SoCalGuy

Man....
I'll take Scotto's ranting ANY DAY over Ringel's.....that's a fact.