furloughforlife

So to sum it up, there's about 1500 of us who feel like we have sacrificed twice for the good of this new UAL. First, furloughed after the guppies were parked, and second (insult to injury), as bottom of the list fodder. The "common ground" would be that once this is all sorted out people might have an idea of what we went through instead of walking around saying, "you should just be happy you're here".

ualratt

No, one doesn't necessarily have to physically be there as long as they're represented, and yes, UALMEC Chair retains a seat on the BOD.

Bandera89

Amen, brother. Perspective is everything.. If you are furloughed twice, like many of us at UAL, you see the big picture at UAL as it relates to us. If you are CAL furloughed, you have the big picture at CAL as it applies to you. What we all need to do is understand each others position. If we point the finger at each other, we will be like the US Airways mess going on after 5 years of merger.

Always lookin' up,

CT

catIIIc

You could have also merged with US Air, which none of you wanted and we(CAL) would have been left to fend for our selves so both positions were unfavorable,the fact is no one knows how this industry will work out. I am currently furloughed TWA/AA and I know I would not expect to be anywhere on a active list if AA would merge today, I know I would like to be. It sucks especially for the 88 hires from TWA on furlough at AA but that was the way that cookie crumbled. And I believe Scope had more to do with the 73's being parked then a merger but it will be up to an arbitrator, and we both have to live with the outcome

LeeFXDWG

Sorry for the slow reply. I stop by when I really have nothing else to do which is actually rare.

Now, to your inquiry, that is a hard question to answer and certainly one I've been waiting to see the answer to since the ALPA merger policy changed post DAL/NWA.

Do I think a guy/gal deserves something in consideration for being hired at UAL prior to someone at CAL being of legal age to vote or whatever. Yes. What that "something" is will be left to the SLI negotiations, and to the arbitrator as I cannot see a mutual decision from the MECs coming without that process being involved. Both sides will fight for what they can get, as they should.

As I said, I expect nothing for me personally. I hope the end game on the SLI will **** all off evenly. My decision to return or not will be based on the outcome of the JCBA and SLI. I have that luxury which I'm thankful for. And, should I be offered a CAL "recall" per the temporary agreement, I will politely decline. Hopefully, someone that needs the job will accept.

I do enjoy the show, however. We'd all like to think we are engaged offensive when in fact we are probably engaged neutral at best. I'll leave the "who deserves what" regarding SLI to folks that will make that decision for all UA and CAL pilots. After all, the SLI is not an MR item.

As to your dislike of my stating my status, that is a problem you'll have to get over. When the BS passes my limit of tolerance, I do something as I did leaving UAL and quite honestly, taking advantage of that option that I'm thankful our MEC negotiated this time around. I'm sure there is one UA active pilot that is glad I did.

Now, to turn your question around, where should I be integrated in that SLI final number based on that. And don't worry, I have much more longevity at UAL than the pilots job I made available. That is how deep and long the furloughs have been at UAL.

Now, to lighten things up a bit, where you at and what are you flying. May know a few old heads where you're at.

Frats,
Lee

LeeFXDWG

I personally agree with the whole "career expectations" thing. Good thing that isn't a part of ALPA merger policy anymore.

Aircraft on order or whatever else you want to look at are only what was going on that day in history.

While you weren't there, I'll remind all that in the late 90's, UAL had 3 year captains, was the world's largest airline, etc.

Many guys on their second furlough were hired during those times at UAL.

It is all in the past. How the SLI negotiations proceed is far down the path.

If all keep that fact in the proper perspective, then hopefully all can get along. Anyone expecting a windfall on the SLI will hopefully be sadly disappointed.

Age 65 may have ruined your timeline to the left seat. True so of UAL pilots. Now throw in 9/11, BK, a senior-centric MEC during BK round one, etc.

Relax. The journey has really just begun.

Lee

iahflyr

I just don't see why we should be getting anything more than what Delta/Northwest got. That is what i'm expecting and if we get that, I will be happy.

SUPERfluf

What was the economy like when DAL/NWA negotiated?
What were the RASM trends?
What were the booking trends?
How stable was the price of oil?

DAL + $1 was a joke when submitted as a "counter offer". Its sure as hell is a joke now.

SoCalGuy

I realize that landscape has completely change being that we are "United" now....

Back when CAL's Mgt offered it's pilot DAL +$1, that agreement would have given Mgt relief on the Joint Venture (CAL & UAL) shelf-life that was due to expire anyway come Dec 2010. That same T/A would have given SCOPE relief/provisions for 70 seat RJ's....those two items were just about the only leverage we had & Mgt would have had everything if that offer was entertained beyond the "Thanks, but NO thanks" response from the MEC.

Conclusion: CAL pilot's would have gained a 'furthered' concession CBA on-top of the pathetic concessionary CBA that we are presently shackled with.....food for thought on ANY future JCBA that comes our way in the coming months.

1257

Not to mention that one of DAL's model comparisons for pay/work rules were the
post bankruptcy manipulated contract structures formed after 9/11.
9/11 and the LCC's were an excuse for mgmts. to enter bankruptcy and force its reliefs.
To use that model, or any contract resulting in part from that model, is laughable.