paladin

To set the record straight; just because the new “Continental” HQ is moving to Chicago there will be no requirement (for those who chose to not be a part of a collectivist organization) to become members of ALPA. All that is required of the objecting non-member is they pay an agency fee. The reduction of monies paid may not hurt ALPA but it will damn sure not help them. For some, there is solace in not giving sanction to a “collectivist/totalitarian” organization. Especially one that not only tolerates the kind of “bullying” tactics that are advocated by some members of this forum, but also one that does so little to represent the individual and does so much to promote the self-serving agenda of its leadership.

Below is from the National Right to work organization.
Employment relations for employees in the railway and airline industries are covered by the Railway Labor Act (RLA). Railway and airline employees are not protected by state Right to Work laws.

Under the RLA, you cannot be required to be a member of a union or pay it any monies as a condition of employment unless the collective bargaining agreement between your employer and your union contains a provision requiring all employees to either join the union or pay union fees.

Even if there is such a provision in the agreement, the most that can be required of you is to pay the union fees (generally called an "agency fee").
If you are not a member, you are still fully covered by the collective bargaining agreement that was negotiated between your employer and the union, and the union is obligated to represent you. Any benefits that are provided to you by your employer pursuant to the collective bargaining agreement (e.g., wages, seniority, vacations, pensions, health insurance) are not affected by your nonmember ship. (If the union offers some "members-only" benefits, you might be excluded from receiving those.)

If you are not a member, you may not be able to participate in union elections or meetings, vote in collective bargaining ratification elections, or participate in other "internal" union activities. However, you cannot be disciplined by the union for anything you do while not a member.
The Supreme Court, in Ellis v. BRAC, 466 U.S. 435 (1984), a lawsuit that was supported by the Foundation, ruled that objecting nonmembers cannot be required to pay union dues. The most that nonnmembers can be required to pay is an agency fee that equals their share of what the union can prove is its costs of collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment with their employer.

SoCalGuy

Interesting reading regarding the above discussion.....
Your Right to Work Rights ? In Three Minutes | National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation

jsled

"Under the RLA, you cannot be required to be a member of a union or pay it any monies as a condition of employment unless the collective bargaining agreement between your employer and your union contains a provision requiring all employees to either join the union or pay union fees"


Bottom line...you pay the "fees" OR you get fired. Belong or not belong, thats up to you - just send the check. No freeloaders!! I know for a fact that our Mem Chairman has started termination proceedings on deadbeat pilots multiple times, most for refusing to pay furlough fund assesments!! Funny, they all come to Jesus when faced with the street.

Bandera89

Over 60 and living the dream...Wow! How many uniforms do you have in the closet at home? How many times did you get furloughed? Did you happen to go to work one time when no one else was flying at your airline? I hope you didn't lose your pension too.

757Driver

Paladin's a scab and proud of it. Perhaps we should brush off the clickers and welcome him to the new UAL???

paladin

Only one uniform hangs in my closet and I have never been furloughed. CAL was flying quite nicely and people were lining up by the hundreds to go to work when I got hired. As far as the pension goes most of it is still there, however, it remains only a promise; not mine until it’s in the bank. I’ve seen all this before just another chapter in the airline business. I try not to worry about things I can’t control. Yep I remain “over 60 and still living the dream”.

paladin

There you go again 75 hurling your pointless invectives. I never took a job from anyone. After the judge abrogated the union contracts for all intents and purposes the insurrection in ’83 was over within months. All those guys marching in lockstep with the “humming collective” were free to return with their numbers and most did. It’s just that Duffy et al was hell bent on waging a jihad against CAL and was willing to sacrifice not only the pilot’s careers but also the careers of the thousands of other employees for the good of a small group of employees at other companies . What makes you and other liked minded people think they are immune to the laws of economics and are so special they can sacrifice the thousands of jobs and careers of other co-workers

oldmako

paladin,

"Pointless invective"...???? No, he called you a scab.

If you are indeed a scab, then it wasn't invective, it was an accurate adjective and it certainly wasn't pointless. Are you a scab? Your post was dripping with anti union drivel, so one has to question your motive.

I especially loved this part...

" Any benefits that are provided to you by your employer pursuant to the collective bargaining agreement (e.g., wages, seniority, vacations, pensions, health insurance) are not affected by your nonmember ship..."

So you get to enjoy ALL the benefits that your fellow pilots fought for and negotiated for without lifting a finger to help or contribute. Is that accurate? I GOT IT!

As far as the union "doing so little" to represent the individual I will gladly pay 2% for ALPA legal (should I ever need it) and ALPA medical.

The quiet work ALPA does for line pilots every day is totally transparent to those who choose to remain oblivious, and who have never worked at the typical non sked, non union **** bag operation.

paladin

I’ll take your last point first. I‘ve worked for my share of **** bag operators but I just moved on and found something better. All of the issues I’ve had at CAL have been resolved amicably through the CP office. So in that regard ALPA has been of no use to me. However, I have heard nothing but good things about ALPA Medical. Fortunately I’ve never needed their services.

Somehow I think 75s’ remark was meant to be more of an insult than a statement of fact. So I will stand by the assertion that it was an invective. It was pointless, because if it was meant as an insult I was not insulted. He, or you for that matter, can call me whatever you wish because your opinion means nothing to me because I do not look to you or ‘75 as a source for anything.

I did cross a picket line but it had been defanged by a bankruptcy judge after he abrogated union contracts. Hindsight being 20/20 I should have crossed earlier. Experience is a great teacher isn’t it? I will concede there can be some value obtained from trade unionism but not the way the current set up is under present labor law. So I am not anti -union as much as I am anti- collectivism. Collectivism is what ALPA and many of its members adhere to, which is the subjugation of the individual to the group. They are of the belief that its members must be “chained” and walk lockstep to collective action and collective thought for the “common good” or in this case the good of the profession. Make no mistake ALPA will sacrifice in a heartbeat any member or employee group if the leadership feels it will further their interest.

"So you get to enjoy ALL the benefits that your fellow pilots fought for and negotiated for without lifting a finger to help or contribute. Is that accurate?"

No it is not accurate. I pay an agency fee, so I am being fleeced for the services received but just not as badly as you.

oldmako

"Further their interest"?? You can spin this crap to justify your pathetic position any way you choose. However, the way I read it is that you will eagerly step over your bleeding brothers to further YOUR interests at the drop of a hat. History has proven that hubris has no bounds.

As far as your dealings with the Flight Office, scabs occasionally get preferential treatment at United as well. It makes the rest of us sick.

I'll allow that organized labor has its warts, but they pale in comparison to yours and no amount of your self serving justification will ever make me change my view. If the Pilots at UAL had grabbed their ankles in 85 as you did, we'd all be making 50K per year and flying round the clock until retirement. NO THANKS.