UAL MEC Update (JNC)
10-09-2010, 05:26 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Fero's
Posts: 472
UAL MEC Update (JNC)
MEC Negotiating Committee Update
The Transition and Process Agreement (TPA) outlined a timeline that was intended to have a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) completed by October 5. As the ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) stated last week and it has said before, this was an ambitious goal but the JNC would not rush into a JCBA for the sake of a deadline. Section 2-K of the TPA also provides for automatic application to the NMB for mediation unless the parties, both management and the ALPA JNC, agree otherwise on October 14.
As October 14 comes into sight, the JNC began considering the addition of a federal National Mediation Board (NMB) mediator. NMB mediation is a useful tool at the appropriate time. If requested too soon, the negotiating process can be less productive for several reasons. The mediator will not likely be able to meet as regularly as the JNC; and while there may be an agreement to continue to meet when the mediator is not available, it is not uncommon for parties to withhold proposals for the benefit of the mediator. After careful consideration and following discussions with the United and Continental MECs this week, the ALPA JNC has agreed to delay its application for mediation to the NMB until December 17, 2010. All parties, including management, have agreed to the December 17 date as the utilization of mediated services is not yet necessary and continuing the negotiating process will serve the best interests of the parties. While the ALPA JNC would have preferred to reach agreement by October 12, the JNC does not consider the delay for mediation as a setback as negotiations continue to progress.
An explanation as to how some of the factors have impacted the progress of the ongoing negotiations includes the following.
First, due to anti-trust regulations prior to the merger closing, management has been unable to discuss, even between the two Companies, the future network or business plan of the new United. This has caused some delays in forthright responses to some of the JNC’s proposals. This is no longer the case post merger closing, and the Company has committed to meet with the JNC and its subject matter experts and provide them with a complete briefing on the aspects of the new airline. The Company has indicated that it needs time to finalize its briefing and this overview will be complete the week of October 25.
Secondly, in the October 1, 2010 Update to the pilots, the JNC stated that nearly all sections of the JCBA have been presented to the Company. The only outstanding sections that have not been passed to the Company are Compensation (Section 3), Duration (Section 25) which is tied to Compensation, Definitions (Section 2), and General (Section 21). The latter two will be held toward the end to admit any final terms or conditions that have not otherwise been included. The ALPA JNC Compensation (Section 3) proposal has not yet been passed to the company since there is currently a lack of consensus on a Compensation proposal from the JNC. The JNC is continuing its work on these final sections. While there has been no consensus reached to date by the JNC concerning a compensation proposal, a process is in place to facilitate resolution.
The JNC has worked together for the past five months on all sections of the contract, and they continue to work very well together for the benefit of the more than 12,500 merged pilots of the new United.
If the JNC decides that negotiations with the Company are no longer fruitful or are losing momentum, they will allow the December 17 trigger to trip an application to the NMB. This date will allow the NMB to act upon the application prior to government shutdown for the Christmas holidays. The JNC will continue to keep its pilots informed of the JCBA’s negotiations and progress.
The Transition and Process Agreement (TPA) outlined a timeline that was intended to have a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) completed by October 5. As the ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) stated last week and it has said before, this was an ambitious goal but the JNC would not rush into a JCBA for the sake of a deadline. Section 2-K of the TPA also provides for automatic application to the NMB for mediation unless the parties, both management and the ALPA JNC, agree otherwise on October 14.
As October 14 comes into sight, the JNC began considering the addition of a federal National Mediation Board (NMB) mediator. NMB mediation is a useful tool at the appropriate time. If requested too soon, the negotiating process can be less productive for several reasons. The mediator will not likely be able to meet as regularly as the JNC; and while there may be an agreement to continue to meet when the mediator is not available, it is not uncommon for parties to withhold proposals for the benefit of the mediator. After careful consideration and following discussions with the United and Continental MECs this week, the ALPA JNC has agreed to delay its application for mediation to the NMB until December 17, 2010. All parties, including management, have agreed to the December 17 date as the utilization of mediated services is not yet necessary and continuing the negotiating process will serve the best interests of the parties. While the ALPA JNC would have preferred to reach agreement by October 12, the JNC does not consider the delay for mediation as a setback as negotiations continue to progress.
An explanation as to how some of the factors have impacted the progress of the ongoing negotiations includes the following.
First, due to anti-trust regulations prior to the merger closing, management has been unable to discuss, even between the two Companies, the future network or business plan of the new United. This has caused some delays in forthright responses to some of the JNC’s proposals. This is no longer the case post merger closing, and the Company has committed to meet with the JNC and its subject matter experts and provide them with a complete briefing on the aspects of the new airline. The Company has indicated that it needs time to finalize its briefing and this overview will be complete the week of October 25.
Secondly, in the October 1, 2010 Update to the pilots, the JNC stated that nearly all sections of the JCBA have been presented to the Company. The only outstanding sections that have not been passed to the Company are Compensation (Section 3), Duration (Section 25) which is tied to Compensation, Definitions (Section 2), and General (Section 21). The latter two will be held toward the end to admit any final terms or conditions that have not otherwise been included. The ALPA JNC Compensation (Section 3) proposal has not yet been passed to the company since there is currently a lack of consensus on a Compensation proposal from the JNC. The JNC is continuing its work on these final sections. While there has been no consensus reached to date by the JNC concerning a compensation proposal, a process is in place to facilitate resolution.
The JNC has worked together for the past five months on all sections of the contract, and they continue to work very well together for the benefit of the more than 12,500 merged pilots of the new United.
If the JNC decides that negotiations with the Company are no longer fruitful or are losing momentum, they will allow the December 17 trigger to trip an application to the NMB. This date will allow the NMB to act upon the application prior to government shutdown for the Christmas holidays. The JNC will continue to keep its pilots informed of the JCBA’s negotiations and progress.
10-09-2010, 07:25 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
My 2 cents...
MEC Negotiating Committee Update
The Transition and Process Agreement (TPA) outlined a timeline that was intended to have a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) completed by October 5. As the ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) stated last week and it has said before, this was an ambitious goal but the JNC would not rush into a JCBA for the sake of a deadline. Section 2-K of the TPA also provides for automatic application to the NMB for mediation unless the parties, both management and the ALPA JNC, agree otherwise on October 14.
As October 14 comes into sight, the JNC began considering the addition of a federal National Mediation Board (NMB) mediator. NMB mediation is a useful tool at the appropriate time. If requested too soon, the negotiating process can be less productive for several reasons. The mediator will not likely be able to meet as regularly as the JNC; and while there may be an agreement to continue to meet when the mediator is not available, it is not uncommon for parties to withhold proposals for the benefit of the mediator. After careful consideration and following discussions with the United and Continental MECs this week, the ALPA JNC has agreed to delay its application for mediation to the NMB until December 17, 2010. All parties, including management, have agreed to the December 17 date as the utilization of mediated services is not yet necessary and continuing the negotiating process will serve the best interests of the parties. While the ALPA JNC would have preferred to reach agreement by October 12, the JNC does not consider the delay for mediation as a setback as negotiations continue to progress.
An explanation as to how some of the factors have impacted the progress of the ongoing negotiations includes the following.
First, due to anti-trust regulations prior to the merger closing, management has been unable to discuss, even between the two Companies, the future network or business plan of the new United. This has caused some delays in forthright responses to some of the JNC’s proposals. This is no longer the case post merger closing, and the Company has committed to meet with the JNC and its subject matter experts and provide them with a complete briefing on the aspects of the new airline. The Company has indicated that it needs time to finalize its briefing and this overview will be complete the week of October 25.
Secondly, in the October 1, 2010 Update to the pilots, the JNC stated that nearly all sections of the JCBA have been presented to the Company. The only outstanding sections that have not been passed to the Company are Compensation (Section 3), Duration (Section 25) which is tied to Compensation, Definitions (Section 2), and General (Section 21). The latter two will be held toward the end to admit any final terms or conditions that have not otherwise been included. The ALPA JNC Compensation (Section 3) proposal has not yet been passed to the company since there is currently a lack of consensus on a Compensation proposal from the JNC. The JNC is continuing its work on these final sections. While there has been no consensus reached to date by the JNC concerning a compensation proposal, a process is in place to facilitate resolution.
The JNC has worked together for the past five months on all sections of the contract, and they continue to work very well together for the benefit of the more than 12,500 merged pilots of the new United.
If the JNC decides that negotiations with the Company are no longer fruitful or are losing momentum, they will allow the December 17 trigger to trip an application to the NMB. This date will allow the NMB to act upon the application prior to government shutdown for the Christmas holidays. The JNC will continue to keep its pilots informed of the JCBA’s negotiations and progress.
The Transition and Process Agreement (TPA) outlined a timeline that was intended to have a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA) completed by October 5. As the ALPA Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) stated last week and it has said before, this was an ambitious goal but the JNC would not rush into a JCBA for the sake of a deadline. Section 2-K of the TPA also provides for automatic application to the NMB for mediation unless the parties, both management and the ALPA JNC, agree otherwise on October 14.
As October 14 comes into sight, the JNC began considering the addition of a federal National Mediation Board (NMB) mediator. NMB mediation is a useful tool at the appropriate time. If requested too soon, the negotiating process can be less productive for several reasons. The mediator will not likely be able to meet as regularly as the JNC; and while there may be an agreement to continue to meet when the mediator is not available, it is not uncommon for parties to withhold proposals for the benefit of the mediator. After careful consideration and following discussions with the United and Continental MECs this week, the ALPA JNC has agreed to delay its application for mediation to the NMB until December 17, 2010. All parties, including management, have agreed to the December 17 date as the utilization of mediated services is not yet necessary and continuing the negotiating process will serve the best interests of the parties. While the ALPA JNC would have preferred to reach agreement by October 12, the JNC does not consider the delay for mediation as a setback as negotiations continue to progress.
An explanation as to how some of the factors have impacted the progress of the ongoing negotiations includes the following.
First, due to anti-trust regulations prior to the merger closing, management has been unable to discuss, even between the two Companies, the future network or business plan of the new United. This has caused some delays in forthright responses to some of the JNC’s proposals. This is no longer the case post merger closing, and the Company has committed to meet with the JNC and its subject matter experts and provide them with a complete briefing on the aspects of the new airline. The Company has indicated that it needs time to finalize its briefing and this overview will be complete the week of October 25.
Secondly, in the October 1, 2010 Update to the pilots, the JNC stated that nearly all sections of the JCBA have been presented to the Company. The only outstanding sections that have not been passed to the Company are Compensation (Section 3), Duration (Section 25) which is tied to Compensation, Definitions (Section 2), and General (Section 21). The latter two will be held toward the end to admit any final terms or conditions that have not otherwise been included. The ALPA JNC Compensation (Section 3) proposal has not yet been passed to the company since there is currently a lack of consensus on a Compensation proposal from the JNC. The JNC is continuing its work on these final sections. While there has been no consensus reached to date by the JNC concerning a compensation proposal, a process is in place to facilitate resolution.
The JNC has worked together for the past five months on all sections of the contract, and they continue to work very well together for the benefit of the more than 12,500 merged pilots of the new United.
If the JNC decides that negotiations with the Company are no longer fruitful or are losing momentum, they will allow the December 17 trigger to trip an application to the NMB. This date will allow the NMB to act upon the application prior to government shutdown for the Christmas holidays. The JNC will continue to keep its pilots informed of the JCBA’s negotiations and progress.
I can say that a mediator will not speed up the process. Figure 3 months just to get them up to speed on the big picture. That would be dead time in negotiations.
Also, I have to say, anyone expecting to be released by the NMB is smoking something illegal. The new company is too large to ever be released in my opinion. Take it for what it is worth.
Frats,
Lee
10-11-2010, 01:06 AM
#4
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Don't know what to read into it. The confidentiality issues were probably a limiting factor in many issues. Things may have become somewhat more productive after the merger date. Who knows.
I can say that a mediator will not speed up the process. Figure 3 months just to get them up to speed on the big picture. That would be dead time in negotiations.
Also, I have to say, anyone expecting to be released by the NMB is smoking something illegal. The new company is too large to ever be released in my opinion. Take it for what it is worth.
Frats,
Lee
I can say that a mediator will not speed up the process. Figure 3 months just to get them up to speed on the big picture. That would be dead time in negotiations.
Also, I have to say, anyone expecting to be released by the NMB is smoking something illegal. The new company is too large to ever be released in my opinion. Take it for what it is worth.
Frats,
Lee
LUV
10-11-2010, 10:15 AM
#5
HOSED BY PBS AGAIN
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,713
Definition of a good lawyer: can wrap up a case in a year.
Definition of a GREAT lawyer: can make the case last 5 years or longer.
ALPA reminds me of a great lawyer. I find it ridiculous that we drag this stuff on and on and on and on, and by the time we vote on this stuff, it's time to start negotiating a new contract. Meanwhile the fatcats are getting fatter and we're getting leaner. Really now, does this stuff have to drag on like this?
Definition of a GREAT lawyer: can make the case last 5 years or longer.
ALPA reminds me of a great lawyer. I find it ridiculous that we drag this stuff on and on and on and on, and by the time we vote on this stuff, it's time to start negotiating a new contract. Meanwhile the fatcats are getting fatter and we're getting leaner. Really now, does this stuff have to drag on like this?
10-12-2010, 07:48 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
I will take a stab at what is rumored to be going on. I don't doubt the pay banding issue is the true hold up. This inmost likely ploy by the UA negotiator Hepner in his bid to secure position with the combined MEC. He can cast theatrics in negotiations,change his position to the satisfaction of the cal mec and portray himself as a uniter when it was him causing the problems in the first place. Watch where these guys wind up AFTER the JNC and you can piece together the back room deals that took place. What grinds my gears is they are doing this at the detriment to the group as a whole. No surprise, but in the end it is costing all of us money.
I for one am opposed to splitting the 400/777 rates. The distinct possibility exist that we negotiate less money for an 80+ ac fleet. The 24 or 25 (depends on whose counting) 400's may not be around for the length of the contract. I could see 777's replacing them all. We would then be working for less than we could have, to appease the small 400 fleet. I realize there are SLI implications with the split and I personally don't support creating the split. Just treat the 400 and 777 as one fleet. It is not like there is a huge difference in the seniority of the guys flying those airplanes.
So to the UA NC, suck it up. Stop politicizing our careers. Act like adults and work together. I would hope the CAL NC is doing the same.
L
I for one am opposed to splitting the 400/777 rates. The distinct possibility exist that we negotiate less money for an 80+ ac fleet. The 24 or 25 (depends on whose counting) 400's may not be around for the length of the contract. I could see 777's replacing them all. We would then be working for less than we could have, to appease the small 400 fleet. I realize there are SLI implications with the split and I personally don't support creating the split. Just treat the 400 and 777 as one fleet. It is not like there is a huge difference in the seniority of the guys flying those airplanes.
So to the UA NC, suck it up. Stop politicizing our careers. Act like adults and work together. I would hope the CAL NC is doing the same.
L
10-12-2010, 08:34 AM
#7
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 172
This inmost likely ploy by the UA negotiator Hepner in his bid to secure position with the combined MEC. He can cast theatrics in negotiations,change his position to the satisfaction of the cal mec and portray himself as a uniter when it was him causing the problems in the first place.
Something of this nature is completely opposite to Jay's character. IF it were even slightly true - Phil would make the truth known.
Both Jay and Phil are very GOOD guys that have only the best interest of the whole pilot group as their goal.
10-12-2010, 11:16 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
There is a whole lot of speculation there... Banding aircraft types together reduces movement/training and therefore reduces the number of pilots on the property. This was agreed to under a concessionary contract and needs to go.
10-12-2010, 12:58 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
We banded the guppy and the bus and still had people bidding across fleets. We band the 757/767 due to common type but significant gross weights.
Follow the money on walk st to find the crooks. Follow the aftermath positions to do the same with alpa.
L
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