NO JCBA until at least END of October.
10-01-2010, 06:39 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
I just read where Smisek said he doesn't expect a contract for at least a year. He also said that management must have 70 seat scope relief to be competitive. I can't speak for the CAL side, but I would say only 10% of the UAL pilots would entertain giving Smisek any more relief. I don't think he fully understands how we feel.
If he wants to wait us out on a JCBA, he can wait all he wants. The longer he waits, the more expensive my RETRO pay will get in order for my yes vote, and my strike fund continues to accrue every month.
Fritz
If he wants to wait us out on a JCBA, he can wait all he wants. The longer he waits, the more expensive my RETRO pay will get in order for my yes vote, and my strike fund continues to accrue every month.
Fritz
Now I must have missed the article regarding the requirement of 70 seat scope. Can you link that if you don't mind? I don't hold out great hope for ALPA. When i think of alpa these days, i see a perpetual loop tape of Bill Buckner letting the ball get through his legs.
Keep your chin up and hang in there. Smisek is also using the press to his advantage. A bit of public negotiations. Nothing we haven't seen before.
L
10-01-2010, 07:20 PM
#52
Recommend Retention
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Bigfoot
Posts: 1,077
*** guys? This is the first time I've wanted to write the negotiating comm and vent - which I will. Why invest so much time and resources all summer in the T&PA to establish deadlines that are now deemed irrelevant? Once again, CAL ALPA caves to management's timeline. Enjoy your continued concessions. Total horse#@$*. When is enough, enough?
From tonight's blastmail: "Due to the progress made to date and management's commitment to address our proposals, it may be in our best interest to extend the Oct. 14 trigger for application for National Mediation Board (NMB) mediation pursuant to Section 2 Part K of the Transition and Process Agreement."
My best interest is to get paid. NOW.
FUPM. Either get it done or make way for someone who will. Meanwhile, we keep making on-time bonus incentives. Nice work guys. :-(
From tonight's blastmail: "Due to the progress made to date and management's commitment to address our proposals, it may be in our best interest to extend the Oct. 14 trigger for application for National Mediation Board (NMB) mediation pursuant to Section 2 Part K of the Transition and Process Agreement."
My best interest is to get paid. NOW.
FUPM. Either get it done or make way for someone who will. Meanwhile, we keep making on-time bonus incentives. Nice work guys. :-(
10-01-2010, 07:30 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 230
To be accurate he said it will take a year for ALL contracts. As much as pilots hate to admit, there are other unioized workforces at the airine too.
Now I must have missed the article regarding the requirement of 70 seat scope. Can you link that if you don't mind? I don't hold out great hope for ALPA. When i think of alpa these days, i see a perpetual loop tape of Bill Buckner letting the ball get through his legs.
Keep your chin up and hang in there. Smisek is also using the press to his advantage. A bit of public negotiations. Nothing we haven't seen before.
L
Now I must have missed the article regarding the requirement of 70 seat scope. Can you link that if you don't mind? I don't hold out great hope for ALPA. When i think of alpa these days, i see a perpetual loop tape of Bill Buckner letting the ball get through his legs.
Keep your chin up and hang in there. Smisek is also using the press to his advantage. A bit of public negotiations. Nothing we haven't seen before.
L
I cant find the exact article, but this is a close second.
United Continental dawns as largest carrier - MarketWatch
Yes, he is indeed using the press. He told CNBC that the pilots don't have a rear view mirror in the cockpit, and we are on board with Smisek et al going forward. Well, 70 seats and the Shamrock spell D.O.A. going forward.
News Headlines 4:21 into video
Also heard from a source on UAL MEC that if JCBA not reached this fall, it could run well into next summer and might require a cooling off period with 11th hour negotiations. I've got all the time it takes to get it right.
Fritz
10-01-2010, 07:46 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 230
L,
Here it is..........
Todays Wall Street Journal
UPDATE: United Airlines' CEO: Union Pacts To Take Year Or More
Article
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By Doug Cameron
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
The head of the new United Airlines said Friday union rules are hampering the company by preventing it from flying larger regional jets, a key headache as the world's largest carrier starts an integration process expected to last up to 18 months.
Jeff Smisek, chief executive of United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL), said it would take at least a year to secure new joint collective bargaining agreements with staff at the legacy Continental and United airlines, which merged Friday.
The new deal hammered out with pilots will be key in determining the future size and shape of the merged airline, with flight crews already pushing for a pact that limits outsourcing of flying to regional partners.
The old Continental had one of the industry's most restrictive pilots' deals, effectively barring it from operating regional jets with more than 50 seats, while the legacy United was able to outsource flying of larger 70-seat aircraft. Hundreds of 50-seat jets have been taken out of service across the industry as high fuel prices made them uneconomic.
"We have been hampered and competitively disadvantaged," said Smisek of the 50-seat rule at Continental, where he was chairman and CEO. "This has not been for us a competitive product."
Smisek, talking to reporters Friday, declined to comment on the state of union negotiations. He reiterated that the two airlines will continue to fly separately for at least 12 months while they seek approval from the Federal Aviation Administration for a single operating certificate that will allow them to mix their planes, crews and maintenance programs.
Pilots from United and Continental are in the same union and have been in joint talks with management for two months. They will decide later this month whether they can maintain what labor officials have described as the rapid pace of progress, or step back to reconsider positions.
Flight crews on Friday reiterated what is seen as a bold initial stance against outsourcing flying, and said the merger wouldn't be properly completed until joint labor deals have been agreed.
"When customers choose an airline, they rightly expect to receive service from that airline, with pilots employed and trained by that airline at the controls," said the pilots' union leaders in a joint statement.
Cabin crews from United and Continental are members of different unions and have yet to agree on future representation.
The stock started trading under the UAL ticker used by the legacy United before its bankruptcy filing, and was recently up 3.4% at $24.46, valuing the company at $4.1 billion. This compares to $9.3 billion for Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL), which it leapfrogged to become the global market leader, and the $9.8 billion of Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV), the most valuable U.S. carrier.
-By Doug Cameron, Dow Jones Newswires; 312-750-4135; [email protected]
Here it is..........
Todays Wall Street Journal
UPDATE: United Airlines' CEO: Union Pacts To Take Year Or More
Article
EmailPrinter
FriendlyShare:
↓ More
Text
(Adds pilots' union statement, updates share prices.)
By Doug Cameron
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
The head of the new United Airlines said Friday union rules are hampering the company by preventing it from flying larger regional jets, a key headache as the world's largest carrier starts an integration process expected to last up to 18 months.
Jeff Smisek, chief executive of United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL), said it would take at least a year to secure new joint collective bargaining agreements with staff at the legacy Continental and United airlines, which merged Friday.
The new deal hammered out with pilots will be key in determining the future size and shape of the merged airline, with flight crews already pushing for a pact that limits outsourcing of flying to regional partners.
The old Continental had one of the industry's most restrictive pilots' deals, effectively barring it from operating regional jets with more than 50 seats, while the legacy United was able to outsource flying of larger 70-seat aircraft. Hundreds of 50-seat jets have been taken out of service across the industry as high fuel prices made them uneconomic.
"We have been hampered and competitively disadvantaged," said Smisek of the 50-seat rule at Continental, where he was chairman and CEO. "This has not been for us a competitive product."
Smisek, talking to reporters Friday, declined to comment on the state of union negotiations. He reiterated that the two airlines will continue to fly separately for at least 12 months while they seek approval from the Federal Aviation Administration for a single operating certificate that will allow them to mix their planes, crews and maintenance programs.
Pilots from United and Continental are in the same union and have been in joint talks with management for two months. They will decide later this month whether they can maintain what labor officials have described as the rapid pace of progress, or step back to reconsider positions.
Flight crews on Friday reiterated what is seen as a bold initial stance against outsourcing flying, and said the merger wouldn't be properly completed until joint labor deals have been agreed.
"When customers choose an airline, they rightly expect to receive service from that airline, with pilots employed and trained by that airline at the controls," said the pilots' union leaders in a joint statement.
Cabin crews from United and Continental are members of different unions and have yet to agree on future representation.
The stock started trading under the UAL ticker used by the legacy United before its bankruptcy filing, and was recently up 3.4% at $24.46, valuing the company at $4.1 billion. This compares to $9.3 billion for Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL), which it leapfrogged to become the global market leader, and the $9.8 billion of Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV), the most valuable U.S. carrier.
-By Doug Cameron, Dow Jones Newswires; 312-750-4135; [email protected]
10-02-2010, 04:26 AM
#56
Fore!
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 756 F/O
Posts: 505
The head of the new United Airlines said Friday union rules are hampering the company by preventing it from flying larger regional jets, a key headache as the world's largest carrier starts an integration process.....
Is the union really stopping them from flying larger regional jets or is the union stopping them from outsourcing flying aircraft that should be flown by the"airline"? If Jeffrey wants to be an Airline CEO then the company needs to have airplanes, if not, then he should apply for the CEO spot at Orbitz, Travelocity, etc... You think he would have learned something after the Colgan crash in Buffalo.
Is the union really stopping them from flying larger regional jets or is the union stopping them from outsourcing flying aircraft that should be flown by the"airline"? If Jeffrey wants to be an Airline CEO then the company needs to have airplanes, if not, then he should apply for the CEO spot at Orbitz, Travelocity, etc... You think he would have learned something after the Colgan crash in Buffalo.
10-02-2010, 06:51 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,905
The head of the new United Airlines said Friday union rules are hampering the company by preventing it from flying larger regional jets, a key headache as the world's largest carrier starts an integration process expected to last up to 18 months.
...
The old Continental had one of the industry's most restrictive pilots' deals, effectively barring it from operating regional jets with more than 50 seats, while the legacy United was able to outsource flying of larger 70-seat aircraft. Hundreds of 50-seat jets have been taken out of service across the industry as high fuel prices made them uneconomic.
"We have been hampered and competitively disadvantaged," said Smisek of the 50-seat rule at Continental, where he was chairman and CEO. "This has not been for us a competitive product."
...
The old Continental had one of the industry's most restrictive pilots' deals, effectively barring it from operating regional jets with more than 50 seats, while the legacy United was able to outsource flying of larger 70-seat aircraft. Hundreds of 50-seat jets have been taken out of service across the industry as high fuel prices made them uneconomic.
"We have been hampered and competitively disadvantaged," said Smisek of the 50-seat rule at Continental, where he was chairman and CEO. "This has not been for us a competitive product."
There is absolutely NOTHING in the CAL pilot contract which prevents CAL from flying 51+ seat jets. He always makes it sound like we won't let passengers fly on those planes. Guess what Mr. Smisek? You can fly as many of those planes as you want with Continental pilots at the controls. As someone said above, are you the CEO of an airline or a travel planning company?
The 50-seat jet may not be a competitive product, but over the past 10 years CAL has managed to lose less than the big competitors and has been managing to make money at the same time our competitors have started to make money.
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