CAL System Bid
09-11-2010, 08:46 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
Maybe 'pr!ck' was too harsh? I don't know, but that's what you sounded like to me. The entire tone of your posts make you sound like someone who hasn't been in this industry very long. Either that or you're VERY receptive to the 'message' of management. For example, you use the term 'goodwill' to describe the agreement to hire furloughed UAL pilots at their previous payrate. That agreement was made in a negotiation between U&C ALPA and U&C Mgmt....OF COURSE mgmt felt like they got something out of it! If CAL Mgmt made that offer OUTSIDE of any negotiation then I might agree with you (MIGHT...not sure). Question? If you get a pay raise in the JCBA will you consider THAT to be goodwill on behalf of mgmt too? Then you go on to bemoan the costs that will be incurred by the pain of having to pay these UAL furloughees their previous rates! Just how much money do you think that is??? Good grief rocket, it's a fly fart in a hurricane to CAL OR UAL!!!!! Beyond that, why do YOU care?
Now, your point that CAL could just hire off the street for less pay.... If they did that, what would happen to THOSE newhires when the SLI is completed? I won't predict the outcome/fate of the furloughee integration (CAL or UAL), but NO MATTER WHAT, any newhire WILL go below ANY current active or furloughed UAL or CAL pilot. So, CAL will hire, train, and then furlough these newhires because they will HAVE to bring back any current furloughees! Still sound like goodwill to you? Sounds like practical, good business sense to me.
As far as your SLI predictions. I think that they are nothing short of a guess, and are not helpful. The process is ongoing and I feel confident that both committees will come to reasonable, sound decisions on most issues. The remainder will go before the arbitration panel. I also have confidence in that process, so I will await their decisions. In the meantime we should ALL avoid needless and reckless pot stirring. THE SINGLE most important thing that both groups should be focusing on is the JCBA. We MUST ensure that this CBA is done right. We will each have a different perspective on how it fixes past wrongs since we don't have a common history, and we will definitely disagree on the 'merging' of our workrules and QWL provisions. BUT -- we BOTH are on the same sheet of music when it comes to the future! We must make sure this CBA protects our careers and QWL!
IMO, posts like yours damage our collective unity by reviving the 'my airline is better than yours' arguments. Guess what guys? UAL will be GONE. CAL will be GONE. Lets focus on the NEW airline and how it will provide for our families.
Now, your point that CAL could just hire off the street for less pay.... If they did that, what would happen to THOSE newhires when the SLI is completed? I won't predict the outcome/fate of the furloughee integration (CAL or UAL), but NO MATTER WHAT, any newhire WILL go below ANY current active or furloughed UAL or CAL pilot. So, CAL will hire, train, and then furlough these newhires because they will HAVE to bring back any current furloughees! Still sound like goodwill to you? Sounds like practical, good business sense to me.
As far as your SLI predictions. I think that they are nothing short of a guess, and are not helpful. The process is ongoing and I feel confident that both committees will come to reasonable, sound decisions on most issues. The remainder will go before the arbitration panel. I also have confidence in that process, so I will await their decisions. In the meantime we should ALL avoid needless and reckless pot stirring. THE SINGLE most important thing that both groups should be focusing on is the JCBA. We MUST ensure that this CBA is done right. We will each have a different perspective on how it fixes past wrongs since we don't have a common history, and we will definitely disagree on the 'merging' of our workrules and QWL provisions. BUT -- we BOTH are on the same sheet of music when it comes to the future! We must make sure this CBA protects our careers and QWL!
IMO, posts like yours damage our collective unity by reviving the 'my airline is better than yours' arguments. Guess what guys? UAL will be GONE. CAL will be GONE. Lets focus on the NEW airline and how it will provide for our families.
Thank you for the well thought out reply with a measured tone. My statements regarding the placement of CAL recalled pilots were from information from recent union meetings. The other statement that I am receptive to management is also not the case whatsoever (and the not being in the industry long). I am just protective of my rights and anything that can potentially damage my bottom line. I assume you and every other UAL guy are the same. Take care.
09-11-2010, 10:39 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
I am just protective of my rights and anything that can potentially damage my bottom line.
I assume you and every other UAL guy are the same.
Take care.
09-12-2010, 05:53 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
I think the thing a lot of people aren't grasping is when the merger closes in a couple week there is NO separate CAL/UAL books anymore. It's one stock, one set of financial numbers. Hell, even calling a UAL furlough a "hire" instead of a "recall" is really semantics. The TTA was written open ended, with language in case merger approval was delayed and there really were two companies. We are way past that point now.
So for now, UAL guys will be "recalled", just to the CAL side instead of the UAL side. This has ZERO effect on SLI, it just gives an unemployed dude a job once more.
I'm just hoping we can get a really good JCBA and move on, good bad and ugly. I have a lot of friends on the CAL side and sincerely look forward to working together someday.
KC
So for now, UAL guys will be "recalled", just to the CAL side instead of the UAL side. This has ZERO effect on SLI, it just gives an unemployed dude a job once more.
I'm just hoping we can get a really good JCBA and move on, good bad and ugly. I have a lot of friends on the CAL side and sincerely look forward to working together someday.
KC
09-12-2010, 06:04 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,874
I think the thing a lot of people aren't grasping is when the merger closes in a couple week there is NO separate CAL/UAL books anymore. It's one stock, one set of financial numbers. Hell, even calling a UAL furlough a "hire" instead of a "recall" is really semantics. The TTA was written open ended, with language in case merger approval was delayed and there really were two companies. We are way past that point now.
So for now, UAL guys will be "recalled", just to the CAL side instead of the UAL side. This has ZERO effect on SLI, it just gives an unemployed dude a job once more.
I'm just hoping we can get a really good JCBA and move on, good bad and ugly. I have a lot of friends on the CAL side and sincerely look forward to working together someday.
KC
So for now, UAL guys will be "recalled", just to the CAL side instead of the UAL side. This has ZERO effect on SLI, it just gives an unemployed dude a job once more.
I'm just hoping we can get a really good JCBA and move on, good bad and ugly. I have a lot of friends on the CAL side and sincerely look forward to working together someday.
KC
CAL is no more in all intensive purposes. We are United Airlines - all of us.
09-12-2010, 06:14 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,576
09-12-2010, 06:23 PM
#47
Fore!
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 756 F/O
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by kc135driver 
I think the thing a lot of people aren't grasping is when the merger closes in a couple week there is NO separate CAL/UAL books anymore. It's one stock, one set of financial numbers. Hell, even calling a UAL furlough a "hire" instead of a "recall" is really semantics. The TTA was written open ended, with language in case merger approval was delayed and there really were two companies. We are way past that point now.
So for now, UAL guys will be "recalled", just to the CAL side instead of the UAL side. This has ZERO effect on SLI, it just gives an unemployed dude a job once more.
I'm just hoping we can get a really good JCBA and move on, good bad and ugly. I have a lot of friends on the CAL side and sincerely look forward to working together someday.
KC
Exactly. In about 20 days we will be ONE company and ONE group of employees spread out in 2 airlines(until the SOC).
I think the thing a lot of people aren't grasping is when the merger closes in a couple week there is NO separate CAL/UAL books anymore. It's one stock, one set of financial numbers. Hell, even calling a UAL furlough a "hire" instead of a "recall" is really semantics. The TTA was written open ended, with language in case merger approval was delayed and there really were two companies. We are way past that point now.
So for now, UAL guys will be "recalled", just to the CAL side instead of the UAL side. This has ZERO effect on SLI, it just gives an unemployed dude a job once more.
I'm just hoping we can get a really good JCBA and move on, good bad and ugly. I have a lot of friends on the CAL side and sincerely look forward to working together someday.
KC
Exactly. In about 20 days we will be ONE company and ONE group of employees spread out in 2 airlines(until the SOC).
09-13-2010, 08:53 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: 18%er but I’ll enforce UPA23 to the last period.
Posts: 471
+1 just change CAL side to UAL side for me. Also had a good chance to dispel a few rumors last night and build some bridges on the UA jumpseat last night. Thanks for the hospitality and the ride. Let's go get us a contract to be proud of!
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