Jcba Must Not Be Signed By October Deadline
08-29-2010, 10:06 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Okay, you win. I'm done. This is my last post. But I will leave all my previous posts up for comparison for when the TA is announced. I truly was trying to help by offering some critical insight that your union nor management will provide - a very important frame of reference. Despite all your cynicism and criticism, I wish you and this pilot group the best of luck. You are about to get a good contract, but not nearly what you could have had. Time will tell. I've got more important fish to fry. BTW, SoCal's claim that ALPA does not negotiate in public. What do you call the recent "public" statement from ALPA demanding all scope restored. Is that not negotiating in public. Funny how that coincided with the DOJ approval. You think they'd publicly demand that and the JCBA not have it. How would you expect anyone to vote for it, not to mention how demoralizing a defeat that would appear to be for ALPA. I've said all along that scope restoration is a done deal. But I'm done from here out. Just act really surprised when the TA is out and if you want a really good contract just vote no and you'll get a real contract by the end of the year. Cheers.
Thanks for your "connect the dots picture" posts. It is an interesting picture, and a very likely one in my view.
Scope has been our greatest failure as a group, and this will be a welcome change. Sorry if I take it on the first pass.
I decline the "you win" part unless the new JCBA proves otherwise.
Thanks,
SP
Added remark: I did notice the WSJ article with CAL MC had October listed as progress check and not a deadline.
08-30-2010, 09:34 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Oncea...
So you are saying the west coast handpicked negotiating cmmte can not get the best deal possible? Thought that was why you orchestrated the overthrow of Tim? Get your guys on the negotiating cmmte since the non- wallachites didn't know what they were doing. Appears you are admitting that the new guys can't get the job done on the first pass? Thought they were the best of the best?
So you are saying the west coast handpicked negotiating cmmte can not get the best deal possible? Thought that was why you orchestrated the overthrow of Tim? Get your guys on the negotiating cmmte since the non- wallachites didn't know what they were doing. Appears you are admitting that the new guys can't get the job done on the first pass? Thought they were the best of the best?
08-30-2010, 10:55 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Oncea...
So you are saying the west coast handpicked negotiating cmmte can not get the best deal possible? Thought that was why you orchestrated the overthrow of Tim? Get your guys on the negotiating cmmte since the non- wallachites didn't know what they were doing. Appears you are admitting that the new guys can't get the job done on the first pass? Thought they were the best of the best?
So you are saying the west coast handpicked negotiating cmmte can not get the best deal possible? Thought that was why you orchestrated the overthrow of Tim? Get your guys on the negotiating cmmte since the non- wallachites didn't know what they were doing. Appears you are admitting that the new guys can't get the job done on the first pass? Thought they were the best of the best?
Thanks
SP
08-30-2010, 12:39 PM
#36
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
Direct "Joint" Negotiations started w/ Mgt the second week of August (10ish), and the timeline that they are pursuing to be done is first week in October....."Done" being 'TA' presentable to the MEC's----> To Pilot group for vote.
Outside of that, not too much has been shared w/ the masses....cue the Crickets.
08-31-2010, 11:03 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 110
The update on the 27th didn't mention any additional TA's but that the joint MECs' scope proposal was submitted to mgmt last week along with most of the remaining sections.
A 'few remaining' sections have yet to be passed over to mgmt. (happening this week I think); compensation is one of them.
The TA's reached so far are on the usual minor 'no cost' items that usually get a TA early. ( seniority, vacations...etc)
Last edited by SUPERfluf; 08-31-2010 at 04:00 PM.
08-31-2010, 11:07 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 110
I get all my stories from apc forums. Far more accurate than the cockpit.
All joking aside, I hope you're correct - but you didn't specify who would receive a "30% pay raise". I'm sure you've noticed the disparity between current UAL and CAL hourly rates.
Just vote NO.
All joking aside, I hope you're correct - but you didn't specify who would receive a "30% pay raise". I'm sure you've noticed the disparity between current UAL and CAL hourly rates.
Just vote NO.
The loan is waaaaay past due and I want my interest AND penalties paid in full.
How about 30% on top of UAL's 2001 rates, indexed for inflation? That might get a 'yes' vote from me.
09-07-2010, 03:29 PM
#39
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 46
Is the fog clearing?
Boeing forecasts that over the next twenty years airlines will have 36% more aircraft (including retirements) and no growth in the regional market. 50 seat aircraft will be nearly eliminated, 70 seat aircraft will be reduced by approximately 40%. These losses will be replaced by 90 to 110 seat aircraft. UCAL will soon cancel the A350 orders and replace them with an all Boeing order. UCAL will be an all Boeing entity. The only exception will be approximately 125 Embraer jets. While scope restoration may sound like a good deal, it is a throwaway for the company and a great bargaining tool for a concessionary contract. (While 30% pay raises may not seem concessionary, they are certainly concessionary considering what has been given away over the last 25 years. Also, 30% only accounts for 6% of the additional revenue synergy of the combined companies in a recessionary environment - a great bargain for the company.) The operation of 50 and even 70 seat small jets are not part of the new business plan going forward. In time they will all be gone. However, the TA will show 70 seat scope restoration, it will not add a single job as the "wind down" time will eventually see all that flying going away. That flying will never go mainline, it will just go away. I mentioned 3 regionals going away in the short term. One has gone, another is going and one more will be gone in the next six to nine months. Over the next 5 years, seven more regionals will be gone. That business model is over. UCAL wants desperately to make these announcements yesterday but can't do it until there is a JCBA, as all bargaining power will be lost. (As it is they have so little.) What has changed over the last few weeks is that your union is starting to get wise to this and is starting to take a firmer stance and is now saying that they are not so interested in an October deadline for the sake of it. Surprise, surprise. Work rule restoration (all furloughees back by summer 2011) and scope is done. Now the compensation numbers are rising and will continue to rise as news continues to leak of UCAL's business plan going forward. (This is too big an animal to keep under a hat). That is why they are so desperate to wrap this up ASAP. They are under enormous pressure. We've gone from 25% to 30. And now the target is 40% with a restoration of contract 2000 wages by the conclusion of the contract 2015. Stay tuned.
09-07-2010, 03:37 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Boeing forecasts that over the next twenty years airlines will have 36% more aircraft (including retirements) and no growth in the regional market. 50 seat aircraft will be nearly eliminated, 70 seat aircraft will be reduced by approximately 40%. These losses will be replaced by 90 to 110 seat aircraft. UCAL will soon cancel the A350 orders and replace them with an all Boeing order. UCAL will be an all Boeing entity. The only exception will be approximately 125 Embraer jets. While scope restoration may sound like a good deal, it is a throwaway for the company and a great bargaining tool for a concessionary contract. (While 30% pay raises may not seem concessionary, they are certainly concessionary considering what has been given away over the last 25 years. Also, 30% only accounts for 6% of the additional revenue synergy of the combined companies in a recessionary environment - a great bargain for the company.) The operation of 50 and even 70 seat small jets are not part of the new business plan going forward. In time they will all be gone. However, the TA will show 70 seat scope restoration, it will not add a single job as the "wind down" time will eventually see all that flying going away. That flying will never go mainline, it will just go away. I mentioned 3 regionals going away in the short term. One has gone, another is going and one more will be gone in the next six to nine months. Over the next 5 years, seven more regionals will be gone. That business model is over. UCAL wants desperately to make these announcements yesterday but can't do it until there is a JCBA, as all bargaining power will be lost. (As it is they have so little.) What has changed over the last few weeks is that your union is starting to get wise to this and is starting to take a firmer stance and is now saying that they are not so interested in an October deadline for the sake of it. Surprise, surprise. Work rule restoration (all furloughees back by summer 2011) and scope is done. Now the compensation numbers are rising and will continue to rise as news continues to leak of UCAL's business plan going forward. (This is too big an animal to keep under a hat). That is why they are so desperate to wrap this up ASAP. They are under enormous pressure. We've gone from 25% to 30. And now the target is 40% with a restoration of contract 2000 wages by the conclusion of the contract 2015. Stay tuned.
Be careful...Skippy is going to accuse you of being on drugs. He said I was too optimistic and that the sky was falling. Time is on our side, fellas. If they want this done, let them write a big fat check and a juicy contract.
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