Jcba Must Not Be Signed By October Deadline
08-11-2010, 01:07 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 230
You are joking right? This is from the ALPA group that activated the Strike Preparedness committee two years before the last contract was due. That was during one of the worst economic times in our country's history. It was full speed ahead, "Glenn's Gotta Go", Fix It Now stickers and sabre rattling to get a new contract two years ago. Now that the company has a reason to get us to the table and negotiate you want to delay??? You must be a former Wallachite. There can be no other reason for your amazing ability to take something good and spin it as something bad.
ALPA leadership at UAL has hit rock bottom. The pilot group is so disenfranchised with ALPA that we have lost good people working at the council and MEC levels. No one but the power hungry and demented are interested in "serving" the pilots anymore.
Of course this is what you get when the Gallud's, Whitefords, and Glawe's of the world wrap themselves in the ALPA flag only to stab the pilot group and the union in the back.
Don't forget to "Fix It Now"
L
ALPA leadership at UAL has hit rock bottom. The pilot group is so disenfranchised with ALPA that we have lost good people working at the council and MEC levels. No one but the power hungry and demented are interested in "serving" the pilots anymore.
Of course this is what you get when the Gallud's, Whitefords, and Glawe's of the world wrap themselves in the ALPA flag only to stab the pilot group and the union in the back.
Don't forget to "Fix It Now"
L
Good, in the fact that they want to negotiate 4 days a week and say they want a TA by October. Good in that it appears we have some leverage.
My concern is that we get a substandard contract and the ALPA spin machine comes out saying this was the best we could get and it's only for 3 years. I'm neither a Wallachite or a Morsite. I'm a question whatever ALPA or UAL tells you ...ite. Whatever agreement we get, we all should read it very carefully and ask lots of questions.
We don't want to look back with buyers remorse. How often has that happened?
08-11-2010, 05:48 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Lambourne,
Good, in the fact that they want to negotiate 4 days a week and say they want a TA by October. Good in that it appears we have some leverage.
My concern is that we get a substandard contract and the ALPA spin machine comes out saying this was the best we could get and it's only for 3 years.
We don't want to look back with buyers remorse. How often has that happened?
Good, in the fact that they want to negotiate 4 days a week and say they want a TA by October. Good in that it appears we have some leverage.
My concern is that we get a substandard contract and the ALPA spin machine comes out saying this was the best we could get and it's only for 3 years.
We don't want to look back with buyers remorse. How often has that happened?
The ALPA spin is always an issue. Remember when we voted down the TA and there were some serious spinners on the ALPA forum telling us how nuts we were for doing so? I think the pilot group is smart enough to read the document and vote accordingly. If the JNC isn't aware of the pilots groups limits then they should not be doing the job.
The issue I have is with "oncea757cap" saying we should not negotiate a new contract within the time line. Our fearless ALPA leaders have drummed the desire for a new contract during the economic downturn. Now we have an improving airline balance sheet, a desire by the company to get a JCBA and yet we have pilots that think that is a bad idea to negotiate under these circumstances? This type of logic is solidifying my thoughts that we have more and more pilots at UA losing their marbles and sense of reality on a daily basis.
No matter what we get in the JCBA there will be those that feel it doesn't go far enough. Much like the old joke about; "Thursday? You want me to work EVERY Thursday?" The key is to look at whatever is presented and see the big picture and weigh whether or not it meets OUR needs.
L
08-11-2010, 02:14 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
You are joking right? This is from the ALPA group that activated the Strike Preparedness committee two years before the last contract was due. That was during one of the worst economic times in our country's history. It was full speed ahead, "Glenn's Gotta Go", Fix It Now stickers and sabre rattling to get a new contract two years ago. Now that the company has a reason to get us to the table and negotiate you want to delay??? You must be a former Wallachite. There can be no other reason for your amazing ability to take something good and spin it as something bad.
ALPA leadership at UAL has hit rock bottom. The pilot group is so disenfranchised with ALPA that we have lost good people working at the council and MEC levels. No one but the power hungry and demented are interested in "serving" the pilots anymore.
Of course this is what you get when the Gallud's, Whitefords, and Glawe's of the world wrap themselves in the ALPA flag only to stab the pilot group and the union in the back.
Don't forget to "Fix It Now"
L
ALPA leadership at UAL has hit rock bottom. The pilot group is so disenfranchised with ALPA that we have lost good people working at the council and MEC levels. No one but the power hungry and demented are interested in "serving" the pilots anymore.
Of course this is what you get when the Gallud's, Whitefords, and Glawe's of the world wrap themselves in the ALPA flag only to stab the pilot group and the union in the back.
Don't forget to "Fix It Now"
L
Every once in a while a shred of intelligence shines through!! Lambourne, you have hit the perverbial nail on the head!!
RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON!
ALPA's all-out attack on GT was nothing more than a smoke screen to cover for their own gross incompetence!!
....and you're right!! The Wallachites are NUTS!!! I've said it a hundred times: Give ALPA enough rope and they will hang themselves EVERYTIME!!! Let's hope they wake up and get the UAL Pilots a good contract this time!! Maybe it will happen?
Once again: KUDOS to Lambourne for the "spot on" op-ed!!
Jay Dee
p.s. BTW, all that SPC garbage? Just a ruse to make the UAL pilot rank and file look the other way while ALPA got sued AND LOST, BIG TIME!!! Are the union pilots "Taking it Back" or "Taking it IN the Back." HA HA HA
08-11-2010, 02:24 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
You are joking right? This is from the ALPA group that activated the Strike Preparedness committee two years before the last contract was due. That was during one of the worst economic times in our country's history. It was full speed ahead, "Glenn's Gotta Go", Fix It Now stickers and sabre rattling to get a new contract two years ago. Now that the company has a reason to get us to the table and negotiate you want to delay??? You must be a former Wallachite. There can be no other reason for your amazing ability to take something good and spin it as something bad.
ALPA leadership at UAL has hit rock bottom. The pilot group is so disenfranchised with ALPA that we have lost good people working at the council and MEC levels. No one but the power hungry and demented are interested in "serving" the pilots anymore.
Of course this is what you get when the Gallud's, Whitefords, and Glawe's of the world wrap themselves in the ALPA flag only to stab the pilot group and the union in the back.
Don't forget to "Fix It Now"
L
ALPA leadership at UAL has hit rock bottom. The pilot group is so disenfranchised with ALPA that we have lost good people working at the council and MEC levels. No one but the power hungry and demented are interested in "serving" the pilots anymore.
Of course this is what you get when the Gallud's, Whitefords, and Glawe's of the world wrap themselves in the ALPA flag only to stab the pilot group and the union in the back.
Don't forget to "Fix It Now"
L
Lam,
The only other thing I would add is that ALPA has NEVER had good leadership....PERIOD! In all my years of flying, I have never seen anything like it!! Your remarks about taking something good and spinning it as something bad are RIGHT ON! Nice job!
I (and hopefully many others) really appreciate your ability to see through the nonsense!!
JD
08-11-2010, 02:50 PM
#15
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
I believe a 'spirited' debate is healthy regarding past 'mistakes' made in former CBA's. At the very least, it allows everyone (both UAL & CAL pilots) to become vividly familiar with the past 'screw jobs' both sides have endured in past CBA's up to this point.
JMO...One thing WE need to caution during this process is the 'in-fighting'. I guarantee that the "Mgt types" LOVE to read this while watching the pilot group(s) beat each other up along the way doing Mgt's dirty work of detracting the pilot group's attention from the prize ahead....the Top-Notch JCBA WE deserve. I can just see them sitting back with huge smiles as we dwell on "what & who" screwed "who & what"' on the last CBA.....I fully recognize that WE need to learn from our mistakes/oversights in past agreements....but do that, LEARN.....don't rehash/detract from what we have in front of us in this JCBA. It's been said before and needs to be said again, this JCBA will most likely be the biggest agreement for many of us during our careers.....Let's not loose sight of this.
I will be the first to agree that this JCBA time line is aggressive to say the least. In the same regard, WE should run at our own pace to have the due-diligence in place to go about this in the MOST methodical manner/'leave no stone unturned' type of process.....even if it takes us 'triple the time' that Mgt hopes to spend on sealing this deal.
It's ours to win....ours to loose. Use your vote wisely if/when the MEC's hand down the TA.
Just my $.02.....Ctnl/Alt/Delete if you see fit
JMO...One thing WE need to caution during this process is the 'in-fighting'. I guarantee that the "Mgt types" LOVE to read this while watching the pilot group(s) beat each other up along the way doing Mgt's dirty work of detracting the pilot group's attention from the prize ahead....the Top-Notch JCBA WE deserve. I can just see them sitting back with huge smiles as we dwell on "what & who" screwed "who & what"' on the last CBA.....I fully recognize that WE need to learn from our mistakes/oversights in past agreements....but do that, LEARN.....don't rehash/detract from what we have in front of us in this JCBA. It's been said before and needs to be said again, this JCBA will most likely be the biggest agreement for many of us during our careers.....Let's not loose sight of this.
I will be the first to agree that this JCBA time line is aggressive to say the least. In the same regard, WE should run at our own pace to have the due-diligence in place to go about this in the MOST methodical manner/'leave no stone unturned' type of process.....even if it takes us 'triple the time' that Mgt hopes to spend on sealing this deal.
It's ours to win....ours to loose. Use your vote wisely if/when the MEC's hand down the TA.
Just my $.02.....Ctnl/Alt/Delete if you see fit
08-11-2010, 05:11 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Lam,
The only other thing I would add is that ALPA has NEVER had good leadership....PERIOD! In all my years of flying, I have never seen anything like it!! Your remarks about taking something good and spinning it as something bad are RIGHT ON! Nice job!
I (and hopefully many others) really appreciate your ability to see through the nonsense!!
JD
The only other thing I would add is that ALPA has NEVER had good leadership....PERIOD! In all my years of flying, I have never seen anything like it!! Your remarks about taking something good and spinning it as something bad are RIGHT ON! Nice job!
I (and hopefully many others) really appreciate your ability to see through the nonsense!!
JD
L
08-11-2010, 06:15 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
Thanks JD. Seems I am hearing more and more people express the same feelings toward ALPA and our leadership. I think the "leadership" has lost the ability to understand what the pilot group wants. A good example is the Hotel Committee. The decision to move the layover in NRT to downtown Tokyo to force compliance with the contract sounds like a great soundbite. Unfortunately, instead of working with the company and getting something that works for everyone, they take a hard line and spin it as a win. No matter how much the line pilot doesn't want the one hour plus taxi ride at the end of a 12+ hour flight. The egotist at the hotel committee refuse to accept their role in making our lives worse.
L
L
I believe it is because they are desparate to be seen as helping pilots. After the disgusting lawsuit two years ago (and many others dismal failures), they need some major rework. However, the way they are attempting to do that appears to be just another FAILURE! Sad to see that our dues money goes to waste.
08-11-2010, 06:25 PM
#18
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 16
another point about the contract... You have no doubt heard of, "too big to fail", well after this merger, the new united will be, "too big to strike." No presidential board is going to allow an airline this large to every strike again. Without the real threat of a strike, we will never have any real leverage over management in future bargaining. Keep that in mind when you vote on this TA whenever it gets done. If you vote it in, you'd better be prepared to live with it for a VERY long time. This merger is a windfall for management on so many levels!
08-11-2010, 07:54 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Fero's
Posts: 472
08-12-2010, 12:45 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 234
I believe a 'spirited' debate is healthy regarding past 'mistakes' made in former CBA's. At the very least, it allows everyone (both UAL & CAL pilots) to become vividly familiar with the past 'screw jobs' both sides have endured in past CBA's up to this point.
JMO...One thing WE need to caution during this process is the 'in-fighting'. I guarantee that the "Mgt types" LOVE to read this while watching the pilot group(s) beat each other up along the way doing Mgt's dirty work of detracting the pilot group's attention from the prize ahead....the Top-Notch JCBA WE deserve. I can just see them sitting back with huge smiles as we dwell on "what & who" screwed "who & what"' on the last CBA.....I fully recognize that WE need to learn from our mistakes/oversights in past agreements....but do that, LEARN.....don't rehash/detract from what we have in front of us in this JCBA. It's been said before and needs to be said again, this JCBA will most likely be the biggest agreement for many of us during our careers.....Let's not loose sight of this.
I will be the first to agree that this JCBA time line is aggressive to say the least. In the same regard, WE should run at our own pace to have the due-diligence in place to go about this in the MOST methodical manner/'leave no stone unturned' type of process.....even if it takes us 'triple the time' that Mgt hopes to spend on sealing this deal.
It's ours to win....ours to loose. Use your vote wisely if/when the MEC's hand down the TA.
Just my $.02.....Ctnl/Alt/Delete if you see fit
JMO...One thing WE need to caution during this process is the 'in-fighting'. I guarantee that the "Mgt types" LOVE to read this while watching the pilot group(s) beat each other up along the way doing Mgt's dirty work of detracting the pilot group's attention from the prize ahead....the Top-Notch JCBA WE deserve. I can just see them sitting back with huge smiles as we dwell on "what & who" screwed "who & what"' on the last CBA.....I fully recognize that WE need to learn from our mistakes/oversights in past agreements....but do that, LEARN.....don't rehash/detract from what we have in front of us in this JCBA. It's been said before and needs to be said again, this JCBA will most likely be the biggest agreement for many of us during our careers.....Let's not loose sight of this.
I will be the first to agree that this JCBA time line is aggressive to say the least. In the same regard, WE should run at our own pace to have the due-diligence in place to go about this in the MOST methodical manner/'leave no stone unturned' type of process.....even if it takes us 'triple the time' that Mgt hopes to spend on sealing this deal.
It's ours to win....ours to loose. Use your vote wisely if/when the MEC's hand down the TA.
Just my $.02.....Ctnl/Alt/Delete if you see fit
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