UAL/CAL Seniority integration
08-04-2010, 09:16 AM
#1
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UAL/CAL Seniority integration
A family of six decides to go on vacation to Colorado. They will drive and it is a long drive. The family owns two cars, a Cadillac and a VW Bug.
Upon hearing of the drive the kids immediately start arguing about who gets which seat, Mom joins in.
Meanwhile, Dad decides to take the VW Bug because it so much more economical.
The ride is horrible. No one has fun on the vacation because the VW ride was so miserable. Also, Junior stayed with Grandma, because the bug only has five seats.
The work rules at UAL are the Cadillac, the work rules at CAL are the VW Bug.
You can fight over seats, or you can all go comfortably in the Cadillac.
Question, Is a higher seniority number at an airline with lousy work rules better than having a job and a better life even though your are not as senior as you could have been working under dreadful conditions?
Under UAL work rules all pilots at both airlines will be recalled to work at the merged United-Continental. Under CAL work rules and additional 1,000 pilots will be furloughed.
Your choice?
Upon hearing of the drive the kids immediately start arguing about who gets which seat, Mom joins in.
Meanwhile, Dad decides to take the VW Bug because it so much more economical.
The ride is horrible. No one has fun on the vacation because the VW ride was so miserable. Also, Junior stayed with Grandma, because the bug only has five seats.
The work rules at UAL are the Cadillac, the work rules at CAL are the VW Bug.
You can fight over seats, or you can all go comfortably in the Cadillac.
Question, Is a higher seniority number at an airline with lousy work rules better than having a job and a better life even though your are not as senior as you could have been working under dreadful conditions?
Under UAL work rules all pilots at both airlines will be recalled to work at the merged United-Continental. Under CAL work rules and additional 1,000 pilots will be furloughed.
Your choice?
08-04-2010, 09:35 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: 777 Cap
Posts: 199
A family of six decides to go on vacation to Colorado. They will drive and it is a long drive. The family owns two cars, a Cadillac and a VW Bug.
Upon hearing of the drive the kids immediately start arguing about who gets which seat, Mom joins in.
Meanwhile, Dad decides to take the VW Bug because it so much more economical.
The ride is horrible. No one has fun on the vacation because the VW ride was so miserable. Also, Junior stayed with Grandma, because the bug only has five seats.
The work rules at UAL are the Cadillac, the work rules at CAL are the VW Bug.
You can fight over seats, or you can all go comfortably in the Cadillac.
Question, Is a higher seniority number at an airline with lousy work rules better than having a job and a better life even though your are not as senior as you could have been working under dreadful conditions?
Under UAL work rules all pilots at both airlines will be recalled to work at the merged United-Continental. Under CAL work rules and additional 1,000 pilots will be furloughed.
Your choice?
Upon hearing of the drive the kids immediately start arguing about who gets which seat, Mom joins in.
Meanwhile, Dad decides to take the VW Bug because it so much more economical.
The ride is horrible. No one has fun on the vacation because the VW ride was so miserable. Also, Junior stayed with Grandma, because the bug only has five seats.
The work rules at UAL are the Cadillac, the work rules at CAL are the VW Bug.
You can fight over seats, or you can all go comfortably in the Cadillac.
Question, Is a higher seniority number at an airline with lousy work rules better than having a job and a better life even though your are not as senior as you could have been working under dreadful conditions?
Under UAL work rules all pilots at both airlines will be recalled to work at the merged United-Continental. Under CAL work rules and additional 1,000 pilots will be furloughed.
Your choice?
The ability to fly like a mofo and have a huge check, or give up earning potential for quality of life.
Similar to seniority lists everywhere. Some chase the buck and some chase QOL.
It is not necessarily an either / or proposition.
Just my 2 cents
08-04-2010, 10:36 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Le Bus
Posts: 382
Knew this stuff would appear eventually.
First off, a little history. 1 year ago my pals at UAL were praying that we'd hook up while I told them we, (CAL), weren't interested.
May, merger announced, celebrations at UAL, not so much at CAL. Like it or not, we are arguably the more successful carrier. Not sugar coating anything by saying this and quite frankly, we'd have been fine on our own.
Merger is rolling on, full steam ahead and here comes the UAL bravado. Yes you have SOME better work rules but your contract is a shell of it's old self. Should we base the merged seniority list solely on that? Well if we do that perhaps it should be based solely on pay rates where we have a distinct advantage? Ridiculous
Can't wait for the brain surgeon comments to come out next.
Farmer, perhaps you should stick with what you know and go back to your crops.
As a disclaimer, 99% of the UAL types I've spoken with have been gracious and optimistic about our upcoming nuptials. Look forward to flying with you types, farmers excluded.
First off, a little history. 1 year ago my pals at UAL were praying that we'd hook up while I told them we, (CAL), weren't interested.
May, merger announced, celebrations at UAL, not so much at CAL. Like it or not, we are arguably the more successful carrier. Not sugar coating anything by saying this and quite frankly, we'd have been fine on our own.
Merger is rolling on, full steam ahead and here comes the UAL bravado. Yes you have SOME better work rules but your contract is a shell of it's old self. Should we base the merged seniority list solely on that? Well if we do that perhaps it should be based solely on pay rates where we have a distinct advantage? Ridiculous
Can't wait for the brain surgeon comments to come out next.
Farmer, perhaps you should stick with what you know and go back to your crops.
As a disclaimer, 99% of the UAL types I've spoken with have been gracious and optimistic about our upcoming nuptials. Look forward to flying with you types, farmers excluded.
Aug. 2, 2010, 12:46 p.m. EDT
Moody's raises UAL's rating; may upgrade further
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Moody's Investors Service on Monday raised UAL Corp.'s (NASDAQ:UAUA) corporate family rating to B3 from Caa1 and kept it on review for possible further upgrade on UAL's upcoming merger with Continental Airlines (NYSE:CAL) . "The upgrade of the ratings recognizes the strengthening of liquidity and credit metrics that has occurred since the beginning of 2010," said Jonathan Root, Moody's airline analyst. Root noted that UAL's capacity discipline, well established position in the trans-Pacific and geographically advantaged West Coast hubs have helped the airline to significantly improve its operating metrics in the first half of the year, which has led to strong earnings growth. At the same time, Moody's affirmed Continental's rating at B2 with a negative outlook.
08-04-2010, 10:40 AM
#6
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Posts: 4
The JCBA that is being negotiated is a contract. Either / or must be contained in a contractual language. Then, only then, does seniority come into play.
At CAL, there are open trip trades, mutual trades, out of base trades, pick ups, drops and even a few more choices. Sounds good, but in reality a pilot can expect to fly the line that PBS gave them with no chance of improvement. The problem is the pilots are legally timed out, or there are no reserves (the Company has total say over minimum reserve coverage and changes it from day to day, even hour to hour).
It’s like being a tiger at a salad bar…lots of choices though.
At CAL, there are open trip trades, mutual trades, out of base trades, pick ups, drops and even a few more choices. Sounds good, but in reality a pilot can expect to fly the line that PBS gave them with no chance of improvement. The problem is the pilots are legally timed out, or there are no reserves (the Company has total say over minimum reserve coverage and changes it from day to day, even hour to hour).
It’s like being a tiger at a salad bar…lots of choices though.
08-04-2010, 10:51 AM
#8
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08-04-2010, 12:02 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
My guess is that both MECs will make their best argument on behalf of the pilots they represent, then a neutral will decide the final SLI. Because of the competing interests I don't see either side agreeing to a negotiated list. I don't think anyone would find that a surprise, however, the challenge will be: Can CAL/UAL pilots make it through the SLI process as a unified group or will they end up in two or more splinter groups?
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