hummingbear

We have an official process for resolving issues like this discretely. The ONLY official communications we have received are that there is misinformation circulating online & that the representation of both affected parties consider this matter resolved. That communication has the names & signatures of people who are accountable to us- not anonymous forum handles. Yet we have grown @$$ men who won’t accept that because it doesn’t jive with/ some $&!t they read on the internet. “Adulting” may not be the right perch from which to defend that position.

The jumpseat is always issued at the captain’s discretion, no question. But it seems to me the big boy response would be to contact your jumpseat committee first & see if they can help resolve your concerns rather than flexing online that you’re going to make someone face the consequences of actions you attribute to them based on hearsay.

BlueScholar

It's exactly what you were saying.

Adulting time, actions have consequences ***The action in this case is filing a safety report***. I don't know or care the specific mechanics of how this got from Point A (invited into somebody else's cockpit as a courtesy) to Point B (phone call to FAA) but she should have someow managed those mechanics so that it never got to Point B. Let's face it, I've never heard of anything like this in many years of 121, and a lot of JS rides have occurred in that time frame. It had to take some effort to push this over the top. The "system" will go through some motions but is inherently limited by it's own liabilities and duties. I think I agree with others, she can ride in back. ***The consequence of filing a safety report is that the person who allegedly filed the safety report (which again, isn't known to be true), is that the person who filed the safety report should be banned from the jeatseat***

Where am I wrong with following your very clearly expressed opinion to your logical conclusion which is people should be punished if they incorrectly submit a safety report?Repercussions against filing safety reports is the antithesis of aviation safety. By all means, if a report is made in error the person should be debriefed on what to do differently, but you are straight up telling anyone who thinks that they witnessed a reportable event that if they are wrong they should be punished.

AirportJunkie

Those comms did nothing to close the information vacuum,(that’s why this thread continues to run) highly doubt the jumpseat chair is going to share verifiable facts on the situation either. Sad because if the facts help her why not put something out there? My guess is the facts don’t help her. She got union counseling and we got told to shut up and color.

rickair7777

That's not what an offline jumpseater is there for. Period. Save the day if necessary but no follow up required after that. What more do you want?

If you legitimately intervened, 99.9% of crews would be totally grateful and would thouroughly debrief, and file an ASAP.

There's not any realistic scenario where a report had to be made by a hitch-hiker without even informing the crew.

But I thought the report was made by a "trusted friend" based on hearsay? How is that appropriate

The JSer isn't getting punished for filing a safety report (which supposedly she didn't do anyway, and should absolutely never happen without the crew being informed). She's not actually being punished at all... other people are simply exercising due diligence to protect their own cockpit from distractions and climate issues. She can ride in the back.

CBreezy

You're never required to give a courtesy call when filing an ASAP. That isn't what the program is for. There are lots of times when only old person in a crew files an ASAP and even when contacted, the other person refuses. The entire purpose of the ASAP program is data collection and trend analysis to help trap errors. In fact, the person on the JS is an additional crew member, not a "hitch-hiker." If you witness a safety issue as an ACM, you are encouraged to fill out an ASAP and no you don't need permission from the CA to do so.
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And anyone claiming they are denying the JS because they are a distraction is gaslighting. They are doing it purely as punishment.

SunDevilPilot

You’re not required, but are you seriously encouraging people not to? Poor form at the very least. Word spreads about people who pull dick moves like that. Before long you’ll be flying only with reserves.

CBreezy

I'm sorry, ASAP isn't a team activity. In fact, they will call you back and have you rewrite it if it sounds too much like it was collaboratively written..

ASAP is completely nonretributional as long as it doesn't involve willful acts of negligence or illegal activities. It's not being a dick to file an ASAP. It likely won't even get pulled for review. Why is everyone so afraid of ASAP?

hummingbear

When has the union ever shared details of disciplinary and/or pro-standards related actions? That isn’t how the process works. You’re free to draw whatever conclusions you want from the union letters but wanting information doesn’t mean you’re entitled to it.

Stinger6

I had a captain jack UP an approach and, being a cherry, I failed to save his bacon and just let our unstable approach get more and more unstable until we landed. He was a few weeks from retirement, and SO reluctant to file an ASAP. My counsel to him, albeit quite late, as a GOOD pilot and FO would have called "go around" and we wouldn't have been in this mess, was FILE THE REPORT FOR FRAK'S SAKE. The airplane WILL tell on you, and the report demonstrates awareness, learning, and, you know, contrition.

And, I said, if you don't file the report, I am going to throw your retired ass completely under the bus when I get called by FOQA.

He called me weeks later to tell me how glad he was that he had filed. The ASAP is your friend. It is as close to a "get out of jail free" card as we'll ever have. The interface for that report here at United SUCKS compared to the regional that just had punch buttons fer stpd pilots, but it's still your friend.

Cool story, Bro. Sorry to go on so long. If all the jumpseater or WN crew did was file an ASAP, I don't see how this is a story. If the story I heard (got a little unstable on the RNAV, fixed it) is all there is to it, I don't see how this is a story.

ThumbsUp

Who said that she filed an ASAP?