AirportJunkie

You’re right, but the TK thing is a bit of stretch. TK can only teach you the way, they aren’t there to babysit you everyday at work. Intentionally disregarding multiple levels of safety that’s on the individual(s).

Guppydriver95

Not TK’s fault, but when the constant drumbeat in that building is NPS scores, biz cards, podium PA’s, dancing like a circus chimp in first class doing welcome PA’s etc, it’s not hard to see how this could slip through the cracks on a high value charter. Doesn’t make it right, but INDOC FOM-specific training pales in comparison to the other garbage. Thankfully ALPA has gotten involved and put the brakes on some of this crap in PPD and our CQDL modules. Please don’t misinterpret my post. It’s the PIC’s job to know, period. But if you think that those types of operational topics are emphasized at TK, rather than the touchy, feely stuff I mentioned above, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.

60av8tor

100% agree. I was taught WAY more FOM subjects at my regional than UA. In fact, I don't remember what was taught re FOM at UA indoc, but that is probably on me🤪. A systemic issue I can see tying to TK - still doesn't absolve the individual - but this was so apparently stupid, I just have a hard time hearing OMG TK is effed up. I'm far from an apologist for the training environment, but if I just have a stupid stroke, it's on me.

60av8tor

I'm not lecturing, I'm disagreeing. "Gone unchecked" "newbie FA"... You've lost me.

Take Priority

Deleted…….

jerryleber

Well said.

METO Guido

Probationary year FA’s don’t know passengers are forbidden access to UA flight decks enroute on revenue legs? As DOT regulator, CAST, CMO supervisor, carrier inspector, nearly everything about this lapse would concern me. Most of all the apparent impunity with which a mainline PIC saw no jeopardy overstepping authority in such a blatant manner. Checked, as in stopped. As in, we’re on video documenting an act of culpable negligence ma’am/sir. So it’s me who doesn’t understand. Not alone either.

Broncofan

I don’t think anyone is arguing that the Captain should be gone. After numerous years as not only a Captain but also a TK instructor, she should have known better. However, I think we all have a soft spot for the FO. As a new hire who potentially doesn’t have much 121, let alone airline charter, I could see how you could end up convinced by the captain saying “oh don’t worry about it, we are part 91 today so the rules don’t apply.” SHOULD he have known better? Sure, he should have read the manual about charter flights prior to operating. But perhaps it was a last minute reserve assignment and was relying on instructor captains “expertise”.

on a side note, as a prior TK guy I completely agree that our Indoc and FOM training is abysmal compared to other airlines I have operated at.

11atsomto

Intentional non compliance cant be the fault of TK, but I couldn't agree with you more on your wider point that there is a HUGE culture problem present at the entire company and TK is the most efficient vehicle to correct this. Currently the INDOC is way too much of a TED talk like atmosphere and lacks large areas of the FOM that many coming from military or Corporate will need. Way too much celebration for just showing up and passing an open book test...which is really all it is. I suppose I see it from thier perspective, INDOC is the best chance they have to establish a positive company image in a very fertile new employee mindset. But the fact all this emphasis on Biz cards, influencer days at Wacker Drive, podium PA's, and more and more of employees (including but not limited to Pilots) being visible in advertising campaigns comes at the same time when we have also been in the news for Bad reasons tells me that these things are intrinsically interrelated.

Atleast we had the Giant NO symbol on the douche filming his walk around on our QDL.

John Carr

Agree. And I also feel sorry for the FO.

But sadly, we're a legacy fuggin' airline. It's the "big boy/girl show", a place where we're all supposed to know better. You know, have a sum of experiences and a knowledge base of how to, well, operate an airplane in this evironment we do. Not a stepping stone/learning experience.

Sadly, with many of the new hires we've had that didn't even have as much TT as many of us had TPIC in, it's not all surprising.

Agree with this too, my 3 prior shops spents way, WAY more time on the FOM than here.

As far as the ones maentioning TK, TK is where you go to learn to fly a plane you haven't flown before, or one you haven't in a long time, ETOPS, what have you. Ya know, so you don't almost smear a 744 into the hills around SFO, or splash one in the drink in Hawaii, or crush one on in EWR and bend the tube. Fly an airbus a bunch of legs with that had a tail drag days prior, etc. Crap, wait, nevermind....

Referencing the above, it's not the "this is how you don't do dumb chit and lose your job" center.

Maybe the infamous story of the SKW FO that was canned in training for being on his phone story has been buried and needs to be pulled out of the closet.