rickair7777

After a couple decades in 121, it's pretty clear to me that I'm responsible for the contents of the FOM, as either PIC or SIC Self-preservation if nothing else.

Doesn't mean I need to memorize it, but I know where everything is and am vaguely familiar with what info it contains regarding non-routine operations. If I'm doing something non-routine (ex. charter, repo, freighter, ground delay, etc) I open up that chapter.

If I completely exhaust all other forms of entertainment on a long flight, I might actually read the FOM on occasion.

"The company wasted all my time with woke BS" isn't going to be an excuse for violating the FOM.

rickair7777

This is why I suspect this might might play out on the more severe side of consequences... lots of media on other safety events leading up plus major media coverage of this event. Neither the company or the FAA is going to want to see any future media about how the CA is back flying the line (somebody will blow the whistle if she is, because it will be newsworthy). FO is TBD, but I'm not holding out much hope.

rickair7777

He seemed to touch the yoke at one point. I imagine the FAA will throw that one along with most of the rest of the book. You can then appeal and try to argue the definition of "manipulate" per the FARs under admin law.

qltep

When it comes to something like this, I’d like to think I’d send a message to dispatch stating my objections if the captain wouldn’t back down after objected a couple of times. If it’s legal and allowed then nothing bad would come of it right?

At the end of the day you have to CYA. Pro stands be damned when it’s something serious like this. Normally when you have a problem with a fellow pilot you go to ALPA first. However, going against not only FOM rules but FARs means I am going to protect myself if it’s going to be my words against the captains.

A good captain would respect your objections.

This is a totally different situation compared to regular safety of flight decision making that I might have an objection to but just not the necessary experience to understand why it’s the best course of action. This is strictly breaking rules and regulations on purpose.

rickair7777

That's actually a much better idea than pulling the breaker. Although I'd give 90% odds that you'd then get to enjoy a private airshow and a forced landing at KSLN or the like. ACARS message re. unauthorized people in the cockpit might get DEFCON raised a notch.

Pro Stans will actually turn you away if it has anything directly to do with safety, or blatant rule violation. For liability reasons they can only address cockpit climate, inter-personal kind of stuff, public nose pickers, toenail clippers, etc.

GogglesPisano

Shirley you can't be serious. Are you claiming that pilots don't have to follow the FOM because they "aren't exposed/tested on it?"

AntiPeter

Stop calling me Shirley.

Perhaps one way to reduce the events of this year is to increase training and emphasis in important safety and regulatory areas, and to decrease training in areas that are not directly related to day-to-day operations.

If the company is interested in reducing embarrassing and safety related incidents, perhaps it would be a good idea.

In addition, any sort of hiring, promotion, or emphasis on social media traits and/or other modern day social politics...well, I wouldn't expect the frequency of these incidents to decrease.

I would argue there is a significant cultural problem going on. Saying we are liable for what's in the FOM isn't going to fix it.

Pilots either don't know what's in the book or choose not to follow it. Perhaps sometime what's in the book isn't the safest or most efficient course of action.

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Khantahr

It's possible to some extent, but it's not easy and it's expensive. I very much doubt the FAA is going to expend the resources to actually try to do it.

DoubleDoink

How do you operate as a pilot at United airlines if you don't read the FLIGHT OPERATIONS MANUAL?

It's the rulebook which by we operate!

You don't do your required reports? You don't know the security levels and required actions? You don't know how to handle a deportee? You don't know any of the rules?

Crazy! Are these the pilots were hiring, guys that need the company to spoon-feed them all the information and then test them on it? Or do will still hire guys that understand it's their responsibility to educate themselves in everything related to the job?

Broncofan

IMHO the problem starts at INDOC. We have the “culture” of “don’t worry about it we will get you through if your having problems” and the Indoc test is open book. Meanwhile it’s pretty much expected we all go drinking most nights. I can’t tell you how many times when I was working at TK guys would show up to FTDB1 and when I asked them to tell me the call outs for a go around, they were deer caught in the headlights. Expecting to be spoon fed. Also, one student I had received 10 extra sim sessions. Incredible.

while agree everybody deserves a second and maybe 3rd chance. We need to have a more serious attitude during training and be willing to weed out people who don’t belong in the flight deck. We always say “well regionals have direct entry captains so why can’t we?” It’s because at a regional if you mess up, your out after maybe one extra sim session or after failing a non open book test.