galaxy flyer

If the captain says she thought the FO was okay or, at least, didn't object but the FO states otherwise without any evidence to back up his claim, he is swimming against the video evidence. Yrs, I'm not denying pulling the CVR isn't against the reg, but it might save him.

METO Guido

Move them, unlikely. Touch them, sure looks that way. I’d let Kareem Jabbar have a crack at 4L in a 20kt xwind before any phone comes out. Going to take some field of dream’s intervention to rescue these fans

OpieTaylor

It could save him, but so will protesting truthfully.

You are escalating to the point where you control the situation with the CB and that is not a luxury FOs have.

A CA that didn’t listen to your protest can shove the breaker back in. Now what?

Sounds like you’re a CA yourself and want an element of control, and feel protected by it, and not the process of authority with protest.

At the end of the day FO’s don’t have control without a mutiny, your advice can’t just be take control of something.

Andy

The Feds have the ability to pull multiple tracks that have been recorded over. IIRC, it's something like 8 cycles of the CVR that they can extract. No need to pull any CBs.

Whoa! Are you saying that she's a former PI and does some indoc instruction? I had that suspicion when both Hoss and MasterOfPuppets, both former PIs, stated they knew the crew.
This would make this an even bigger deal; if they were common line swine, that's one level of stupidity. But a former instructor is a whole different level of idiocy.

CRJCapitan

It's not any airline's job to teach the FOM to pilots. It's part of the job to know what you need to know, or at least be able to find it. If they're about to do a charter and aren't sure of something, gloss over that section ahead of time.

rickair7777

Actually in practical reality they don't have to prove anything, they can simply award sanctions up to and including emergency revocation. Then you can try to make the case that they had insufficient evidence.

But there's no objective jury, just burueacrats behind closed doors, then NTSB which tends to rubber-stamp whatever the FAA already did. Recent change, if all that fails you can appeal to an actual federal appeals court. Long road, expensive road, and you still need to save anough money for truck driving school.

I would tend to agree for a jury trial, unless it's an emotionally-charged issue like self-defense with a fire-arm

I agree... if he protested clearly and explicitly, and the CA doesn't refute that (I can't think of why she would but you never know).

I tend to suspect he did not protest, because what kind of moron would pull a stunt like this, and video it, after the FO made it clear he didn't like it? But who knows.

rickair7777

I think you could make the case that a serious security incident had already occured and you needed to preserve the record of that. The odds of a rudder-servo hard-over later in the same flight are astronomically low.

But if it was me I would have protested with sufficient clarity that the whole thing would never have happened in the first place: "If you do this I will call the duty officer when we set the brake at the gate". No physical force would be needed.

I'm easy to get along with in the cockpit but I will certainly draw the line if you're going to do something that will jeopardize my life or my job.

BlueScholar

There's a FOM test at indoc, and FOM discussions comes up in every sim I've ever been in

Bahamasflyer

That's where that 1.85% dues money really pays for itself w legal representation. As long as the alleged violation happened while at work (vs flying GA for fun).

rickair7777

That would make sense for old-style devices which use tape or hard drive type media. I'm not sure if that can be done for solid state digitial media, but I think that kind of recorder would retain data muuch longer, like 24 hours?