UNITED???? Passenger in CAPT seat in FLIGHT?
04-20-2024, 04:10 AM
#191
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,400
To add to the CRM options, when the lady starts videoing Hensley at the controls FO can say "You shouldn't be up here. This isn't right.". It's easy to say you'll stand up to an authority figure in an interview. It takes practice and some comfort with disapproval to do this in real life, and ruin the Boss' party. It's a lot tougher than typing stuff on APC.
The FO slipped up badly. The captain deliberately went off the rails.
04-20-2024, 04:42 AM
#192
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Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 293
So she was hoping to get a reciprocal invite to the team weight room or maybe locker room during shower time? I dunno man, I think it was just having some fun. Maybe hoping for a skybox invite.
The infraction in and of itself was not a huge deal, we all know it's happened before and it's not like she opened the door to the general public. The risk of pax-induced UAS is real, but pretty low.
The bad judgement was more about doing it in today's context... post 9/11, UAL in the media spotlight, Boeing in the media spotlight, even that FA-induced UAS in the media.
The really, really bad judgement was the video
The infraction in and of itself was not a huge deal, we all know it's happened before and it's not like she opened the door to the general public. The risk of pax-induced UAS is real, but pretty low.
The bad judgement was more about doing it in today's context... post 9/11, UAL in the media spotlight, Boeing in the media spotlight, even that FA-induced UAS in the media.
The really, really bad judgement was the video
04-20-2024, 05:09 AM
#193
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Posts: 545
04-20-2024, 05:27 AM
#194
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Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 378
04-20-2024, 05:47 AM
#195
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,725
While no one here has ever accused you of being intelligent, if you knew the captain you'd understand exactly how sophomoric this theory of yours is. But by all means keep smacking your keyboard spanky.
04-20-2024, 06:02 AM
#196
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Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 531
This is a great opportunity for a much needed corporate culture change to take place. Instead of being overly concerned with social media, NPS and DEI -- perhaps this is a good time to focus on the basics. They aren't as flashy, but they are less embarrassing and toxic.
04-20-2024, 06:05 AM
#197
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,862
They are both responsible.......the decision to speak up about it during the incident is a "tough" one but THAT IS THE JOB. If a person can't handle that responsibility to hold the safety of the flight above all then that person shouldn't accept the job as a professional pilot.
Shame on the Cpt putting him in that position in the first place.
Shame on the Cpt putting him in that position in the first place.
04-20-2024, 06:07 AM
#198
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 988
That is great to hear. How are such incidents reported and to whom? I have never heard of a patient being notified. Can you cite some examples or a reporting system where such actions or errors are disclosed or self-disclosed like aviation's ASAP program? If there is no longer a "white wall of silence" then why are medical errors the third largest cause of death in the US according to Johns Hopkins?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html
#
Why has the medical field been so late in adopting CRM, checklists, etc. that have been SOP in aviation, construction and other fields for decades?
https://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Man.../dp/0312430000
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html
#
Why has the medical field been so late in adopting CRM, checklists, etc. that have been SOP in aviation, construction and other fields for decades?
https://www.amazon.com/Checklist-Man.../dp/0312430000
Regarding ASAP, look up "morbidity & mortality conferences" if you don't know what doctors do. That has been a tradition far longer than NASA's program which was established in 1975. The VA for some years even teamed up with NASA to use their database for awhile for VA hospitals, but I think that was abandoned and they went back to internal reporting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morbidity_and_mortality_conference
For formal reporting, usually hospital chief of staff, medical board, then attorney general...
"Never heard of a patient being notified?"
You obviously know little of the medical field. And because you've never heard of it it must not take place I suppose.
Yeah hur hur those doctors amirite?
No wit lost in the past decade, Airhoss. Good to virtually see you.
04-20-2024, 06:07 AM
#199
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,995
July of 1998, an ACMI carrier had just received is't Operations Certificate. On one of their Spring Break Flights, The FE, I believe, participated in a Wet T-shirt contest. The winner spent some 20 minute seat in the cockpit.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...412-story.html
CFR § 121.547 - "Admission to flight deck", says is all. I'm sure UAL's GOM addresses this reg in plain English too.
EXCERPT FROM AC 120-66C
18 GUIDELINES FOR EXCLUSION OF REPORTS UNDER THE ASAP. This paragraph discusses exclusion criteria for ASAP reports.
18.1 Timeliness. Past iterations of ASAP policy emphasized strict time period requirements as a condition for acceptance of reports. While timeliness considerations are generally still a relevant factor in whether the ERC accepts a report, the responsibility of the ERC is now to review all information available and determine whether acceptance of the report is in the best interest of safety. Timeliness considerations do not apply to sole-source reports.
18.2 Reckless Conduct. Reports of an apparent violation involving reckless conduct are excluded. Reckless conduct is an act (or failure to act) demonstrating a gross disregard for, or deliberate indifference to, safety or a safety standard.
18.3 Intentional Conduct. Reports involving intentional conduct are excluded. Intentional conduct is an act (or failure to act) while knowing that such conduct is contrary to a regulation or statute, or is otherwise prohibited.
18.1 Timeliness. Past iterations of ASAP policy emphasized strict time period requirements as a condition for acceptance of reports. While timeliness considerations are generally still a relevant factor in whether the ERC accepts a report, the responsibility of the ERC is now to review all information available and determine whether acceptance of the report is in the best interest of safety. Timeliness considerations do not apply to sole-source reports.
18.2 Reckless Conduct. Reports of an apparent violation involving reckless conduct are excluded. Reckless conduct is an act (or failure to act) demonstrating a gross disregard for, or deliberate indifference to, safety or a safety standard.
18.3 Intentional Conduct. Reports involving intentional conduct are excluded. Intentional conduct is an act (or failure to act) while knowing that such conduct is contrary to a regulation or statute, or is otherwise prohibited.
Last edited by captjns; 04-20-2024 at 06:24 AM.
04-20-2024, 06:20 AM
#200
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Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 717a
Posts: 709
I remember this happening at USAir back in the 1990's. The married Captain let his F/A Girlfriend who had a PPL sit in his seat and fly the jet. Another F/A turned them in. The Captain, who ironically was on the Central Air Safety Committiee, realized he was screwed and did the right thing and said the F/O protested and he overrode him. That way the F/O kept his job.
The FO did eventually get his job back, Captain did not.
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