UNITED???? Passenger in CAPT seat in FLIGHT?
04-19-2024, 08:51 AM
#133
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,112
I love UAL, I respect UAL and any other airline that helps me pay the bills however (and that's MY opinion but I'm entitled to it) the next step should (have) be(en) the Chief Pilots calling the crew in and telling them, well since it's baseball these pax are into then maybe some baseball SOP is called for here):
"X, Y, we're letting you go. You failed to perform according to regulations. There's not much to say. Julie (pick a name) at HR will handle the details. I'm sorr. That's the way it's gotta be"
Full stop. No ifs. No buts. No alternative explanations. No nothing!
Goodbye! Thanks for your service. Who's next in the seniority list? Call them. They just got lucky
"X, Y, we're letting you go. You failed to perform according to regulations. There's not much to say. Julie (pick a name) at HR will handle the details. I'm sorr. That's the way it's gotta be"
Full stop. No ifs. No buts. No alternative explanations. No nothing!
Goodbye! Thanks for your service. Who's next in the seniority list? Call them. They just got lucky
Also the FAA can suspend or revoke their certs, probably immediately under emergency authority with due process to follow later if requested. This is getting into the realm where emergency authority has been used in the past, and the FAA isn't immune to the effects of public optics. And no ASAP won't help for blatant intentional non-compliance lol.
04-19-2024, 09:03 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Posts: 669
Of course the risk is low...becuase allowing pax to sit in a control seat is illegal and essentially (until now) never happens.
Anyone rember Aeroflot 593? If the guy sitting in the UAL seat the other day had put a bit more pressure on the yoke, things could have gotten out of hand very quickly.
Anyone rember Aeroflot 593? If the guy sitting in the UAL seat the other day had put a bit more pressure on the yoke, things could have gotten out of hand very quickly.
the jumpseat of his 767… part 91… no one cared… also go read on the Aeroflot 593, totally different.. **** Russian design of an airplane, and the crew couldn’t recover from a stall due to pilot errors.
if anything, it breaks United’s policies. If it’s part 91, not nearly as big of a deal. The let sight seeing tourist up in the co-pilot seat of a helicopters with no issues for part 91 and they can touch all the controls
04-19-2024, 09:13 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 717a
Posts: 709
I'm not with UAL, rather another major. I strongly suspect this flight was conducted under part 121 rules. FAR's were violated.
More serious though is the security violation of the cockpit. This involves the TSA. I think this is what will end the captains career.
Hopefully he/she will do the honorable thing and tell the prosecuting authorities the FO objected (if they in fact did) and maybe save one career.
More serious though is the security violation of the cockpit. This involves the TSA. I think this is what will end the captains career.
Hopefully he/she will do the honorable thing and tell the prosecuting authorities the FO objected (if they in fact did) and maybe save one career.
04-19-2024, 09:27 AM
#136
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,602
For those not familiar, 121 airlines can actually operate non-revenue flights under 91, and charter flights under 135, if desired. Some have done it in the past and I'd guess some sectors still do (ACMI).
But they also have the option to operate all of their flights under 121, domestic, flag, or supplemental. Most majors seem to do that today as far as I can tell. In that case you have to comply with all the usual rules.
Also many airlines which might do a 91 repo for example, have FOM language that the pilots will comply with all normal SOPs, so the 91 part really is more for dispatch and maybe mx relief.
But they also have the option to operate all of their flights under 121, domestic, flag, or supplemental. Most majors seem to do that today as far as I can tell. In that case you have to comply with all the usual rules.
Also many airlines which might do a 91 repo for example, have FOM language that the pilots will comply with all normal SOPs, so the 91 part really is more for dispatch and maybe mx relief.
04-19-2024, 09:31 AM
#137
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,602
Drake filmed his crew landing a low vis ILS from
the jumpseat of his 767… part 91… no one cared… also go read on the Aeroflot 593, totally different.. **** Russian design of an airplane, and the crew couldn’t recover from a stall due to pilot errors.
if anything, it breaks United’s policies. If it’s part 91, not nearly as big of a deal. The let sight seeing tourist up in the co-pilot seat of a helicopters with no issues for part 91 and they can touch all the controls
the jumpseat of his 767… part 91… no one cared… also go read on the Aeroflot 593, totally different.. **** Russian design of an airplane, and the crew couldn’t recover from a stall due to pilot errors.
if anything, it breaks United’s policies. If it’s part 91, not nearly as big of a deal. The let sight seeing tourist up in the co-pilot seat of a helicopters with no issues for part 91 and they can touch all the controls
Comparing this to Drake in a plane he owns is a little different. You cant fly a charter flight as Part 91. I doubt that coach owns that plane.
04-19-2024, 09:32 AM
#138
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 871
We're having a conversation on an internet forum. Did I completely miss the part where I or anyone else advocated for a someone to make a statement on behalf of any company? I was speaking about what would be a reasonable response in a conversation. You made a very weird leap to "statements on behalf of the company".
04-19-2024, 09:38 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,910
The only pilots who should have an authoritive opinion here are UAL pilots: Since they bave access to their manuals. I don't work for United but for another legacy. Our FOM is quite clear that charters are operated under 121. Letting passengers into the flight deck after pushback is insane.
But, I'm not sure what UAL's manuals say.
But, I'm not sure what UAL's manuals say.
04-19-2024, 10:08 AM
#140
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,112
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