Handwrite4024

Dear community,

I understand if you groan at the mention of UAL vs. AAL once again, but this time, I'm specifically reaching out to pilots who've transitioned between these two companies.

I acknowledge that each person has unique preferences, needs, and weighs pros and cons differently. If you're eyeing Phoenix or Charlotte, American might be your best bet. Need a quick jump to the left seat with over 1,000 hours 121? United could be your go-to. For domestic commuting, AAL might offer the edge, where securing a jump seat and check-in time matter more than seniority. If international commutes or advancing to widebody FO rank quickly are your priorities, United might be the answer. Probably.

Yes, there's much more to consider, I understand. What I'm curious about is this: Did any of you regret switching from one airline to the other?

What assumptions about the grass being greener on the other side turned out false? Which aspects—be it procedures, benefits, or cultural elements—did you find displeasing after switching to what seemed like a better fit, causing you to miss your former employer? Especially in case ls where one left AAL for UAL?

Both companies offer enticing packages, lucrative career paths, and opportunities within training, flight ops, and the union.

Personally, I have nothing negative to say about either. But do any of you ever think: "Darn, I should've stuck with [company X]. If only I'd known ____________ [fill in the blank], I'd never have left."

Currently, I'm in the situation of recently having completed OE with AAL (my initial "Plan B") and facing an upcoming class date with my original "Plan A" company, United. While I enjoy my time at AAL, easier international commuting with United and the Star Alliance network (including Business Standby via MyID Travel, unavailable at AAL) beckons due to my family connections in another country.

Friends at AAL advise me to stay, citing valid points, while those at United urge me to join. However, their perspectives are limited to their respective companies, sometimes lacking understanding of their own union contracts and only possessing surface knowledge about the other.

Thanks for any insights!

Otterbox

I've never met anyone who said regretted leaving one legacy for another legacy. Usually they latch on to one or two things that they decide are important enough to warrant a move and double down on it.

If you live in base legacy Jobs are about 80% the same.
There would have to be massive structural changes at AA to make it anywhere near as close to United on the international front. The chances of AA funding and executing such a plan are close to zero. United on the other hand is attempting to rapidly grow and upguage its domestic network and is running into significant issues when it comes to aircraft deliveries as well as some other issues.

If your family lived in a podunk town in the USA there would be a much greater chance AA serves it 3x daily with one of its RJs than United ever serving it at all. If going to see your international family is important to you that's probably going to be facilitated much better by United service throughout your career.

Live within 2hrs of a United base that services your international family and your life should be pretty good.

VacancyBid

This is an accord vs camry question. Both good choices, no definitive wrong answers

business zed is a real difference but
1) that could well change
2) business zed tickets will easily run several hundred dollars. Not expensive but not cheap
3) take a hard look at your preferred route in staff traveller and see what availability looks like. I have not found it to be generally and widely available

BlueScholar

True UAL will offer better nonrev opportunities abroad, but if you're nonrevving you're still at the bottom of the list to get on board so if the family is in a tourist spot that's still not going to help during peak tourist season. I'm not sure you can go significantly better or worse either way, but including where your family is and age could help improve the advice. If the family is in Japan then UAL and Guam is perfect. Toronto? Maybe there's not a major difference. Stockholm? Maybe you're equally hosed no matter what legacy you go to. If you're old and will only be working for 5-10 years maybe a significant difference matters less. If you're 25 we have no idea what your career will look like in 35 years and best commuter clauses will likely swap between companies a dozen times, so maybe the choice is more arbitrary. It also sounds like you're making a significant decision based on an airline nonrev policy that can be unilaterally changed on a whim tomorrow, so who knows how that will go.

Something worth thinking about is how seniority plays into it all too. Would UAL's better intl network help you out more compared to AA's projected faster seniority and being able to have more control over your schedule? Getting on WB's at UAL may help you limit the number of trips, but our WB/global reserve rules aren't kind to commuters. Another factor is reserve goes junior at UAL, and it seems to go senior everywhere else, and I assume at AA too. Commuting to an AA line where you might pay for 2 nights of hotels max with the knowledge when your trip will start and when it should end helps plan things out and it's much different than a 5 day reserve stint in a crashpad or hotel with no idea when you will get a call or if you might get released a few hours early and paying out hotel $$$ in the meantime. There is the chance to aggresive pickup (volunteer for flights on reserve) but if there's only 1-2 trips and 30+ FO's on reserve those trips can disappear quick. It's worth noting that although there is a commuter policy in our contract, new hires are NOT fully protected by the contract, and if you use the commuter policy and legally miss several trips while on probation you can still be fired. And yes, probationary pilots have been fired for that, and that is coming straight from a chief pilot's office. So just something worth keeping in mind.

I'm assuming intl commuting will be like regular commuting but longer flights, fewer flight options, and more stress and money spent getting to work, with more seasonal variations. If your QOL is say, a 3.5/10 at one airline compared to a 2/10 at another, is your perspective going to be "is that really a big difference because each option sucks so I'm not going to split hairs" or "every little QOL perk will help to make life suck less"?

Aquaticus

I think aal has more retirements, United’s growth strategy could very easily be reversed if there is a black swan or recession, but I think it is comparable either way and ultimately comes down to commute or base needs. If I could make a aal work base wise and I had a few months seniority I wouldn’t be burning bridges.

VforVendetta

I made exactly this move a few months ago. From AA to UA. No regrets. I knew both companies intimately already and there were zero surprises for me.
I was at AA for 1 year and 10 days before moving to UA. Gave up 2000 seniority numbers to do it.

Grass is greener in some regards but not others. As you mentioned there's a lot going into the weeds about what different people find better ot not. Ill try to keep to what youve asked for.

Each airline has a distinct character and personality. Its own culture. Some think its all the same but it is not. Its just that some aren't observant enough to notice.

United is much more detail oriented compared to AA. The operation and procedures are more detailed and in some cases overthiniking which is adorable in its own way. AA is a much more loose operation. As one senior captain put it at AA "it's very loose goosy here, isn't it?". UA SOPs are more structured. Not as structured as I think they should be, but I have a feeling that's about to change for the better.

The reserve system is hands down better at AA. Same with commuting policy. UA loses talent on a regular basis due to this alone. But if you plan on living in base, it's not an issue besides the fact that unlike AA which has no defined reserve callout time, UA is 2.5 hrs. At AA one guy had 32 missed assignments siitting reserve in DEN for LAX, each time they called him he said he'll be there in many hours later. 10 hours, 12 hours etc. It took 32 missed assignments before he was called into the CP office for a chat. HR manager at indoc told us the story. UA will be fast to pull the trigger on you. Probably fired after 2 MA.
It is almost impossible to get fired at AA. UA is much quicker.

AA is mostly a domestic airline with some international flying sprinkled in. UA is a proper international airline.

At AA 320 fleet has much better flying than 737. It's the opposite at UA. However with change of plans and 320 fleet growing at UA as a result of boeing 737 debacle, that's going to change to some extent.

At AA it's 5 years to hold widebody right seat, at UA its a year or less. Was immediate in initial class until just a little while ago.

Now the main cultural difference between the 2. AA pilot body is made up of several different airlines which after being merged into AA now make up the pilot group at AA. Legacy AA, TWA, USAIR, AMERICA WEST, and some smaller less notable outfits plus the newbies hired in the last 5 years. They all hate each other with a passion, except the newbies. Due to various issues. Seniority integration being just one of them. Each airline historically hires a typical personality and type of person. All these different hire types being mixed makes a very disjointed group. None of these groups I mentioned likes any of the others. Ive never seen and heard so much negativity about the company and the other pilot groups which make up this merged AA pilot group. Strength comes from unity and at AA these different groups are not united. They can't stand each other. UA pilots get a better deal because of their strength in unity. AA pilots don't. This was on public display during the recent negotiations. AA pilots got what they got on the coattails of UA pilots. I'd rather be at the source than downstream.

If you travel internationally on a regular basis then it's a no brainer that UA will be better. Having higher priority on your own airline wether JS or in the back makes a big difference. I traveled internationally on AA a few times while I was there. It was much more complicated having to connect and to be at the bottom of some other airline id90 list restricted to the very last row of economy. With UA I have own airline direct flight options on which I can have a hope of biz class.

I'll be happy to answer any more questions. Don't hesitate to hit me up.

Sliceback

That's such a strange observation. USAIR guy didn't switch to DFW because he was worried about the East-West type of attitude would be present in the AA-USAIR mix. He's buddies transferred to DFW ASAP - "come on down. No one carries. Show up, do your job, have a couple of beers, fly back." A year later he transferred to fly the 777 out of DFW. Holding Maui. Happy as a pig in sh!t.

There's a handful of bitter guys around. The vast majority shake their heads when the bitter guys names come up - "it could be worse." "How?!?!" "You're not married to them."

Most of the guys couldn't GAS about peoples backgrounds. Show up, fly, be good to the people around you, laugh, fly back, go home. Life can be that simple. It's a choice.

PRS Guitars

Haven't seen any of that in years. Been here (AA) 10 years an have been based in 2 USAirways bases and 2 LAA bases and have flown with many LAWA. Never saw "hate", haven't seen animosity or discussed this topic in over 6 or 7 years. Now, with the right curmudgeon, you can probably coax it out of them, but you probably need to pry to get them going...which I don't do.

Im sure the UAL/Continental situation was similar.

Ice Bear

Where do you live? If one is a tangibly easier drive, that should be your answer 99/100 times.

elmetal

I'm a post merger hire and I hear about UAL/CAL EVERY single trip in one fashion or another. EVERY trip. (756)

I'm in a LUAL (IAD) base that is fairly close to a LCAL base for reference (EWR)