PBS at UAL
01-23-2024, 09:14 AM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2023
Posts: 12
PBS at UAL
General question about PBS at United. As someone who’s considering UAL, it helps me to understand what kind of bidding process I’ll deal with every month until I retire.
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
01-23-2024, 09:26 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,360
General question about PBS at United. As someone who’s considering UAL, it helps me to understand what kind of bidding process I’ll deal with every month until I retire.
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
01-23-2024, 09:29 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 110
General question about PBS at United. As someone who’s considering UAL, it helps me to understand what kind of bidding process I’ll deal with every month until I retire.
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
01-23-2024, 10:56 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 266
Most PBS systems work this way, but ours is different. Ours “optimizes” all trips with everyone’s requests concurrently trying to essentially make everyone happy. So basically the more junior pilots still have a crack at the “better trips”. For instance if a senior pilot isn’t specific enough in what they bid for and don’t weight it high enough, a junior pilot could in theory get the more desirable trips. It’s definitely wizardry that should be easier to use than it is
01-23-2024, 12:35 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 687
basically, except they made it even more confusing by adding weights to each line (from highest to lowest), which then moves things into and out of magical buckets, and then things happen, and then you get a schedule which is nowhere remotely close to what the BAT pooped out (a bid assessment tool, which can show what a bid looks like, or if it will fail).
01-23-2024, 12:42 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 596
Im a new guy, but my understanding was that the BAT is simply a way to verify that your bid group is legal. In other words, to verify that it’s even theoretically possible to be awarded a schedule based on your preferences. I didn’t think it had any intention of predicting what you would actually be awarded.
01-23-2024, 01:22 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,360
Im a new guy, but my understanding was that the BAT is simply a way to verify that your bid group is legal. In other words, to verify that it’s even theoretically possible to be awarded a schedule based on your preferences. I didn’t think it had any intention of predicting what you would actually be awarded.
01-23-2024, 03:46 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,701
General question about PBS at United. As someone who’s considering UAL, it helps me to understand what kind of bidding process I’ll deal with every month until I retire.
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
I’ve worked under a different PBS, and I’m wondering if a UAL pilot can chime in and tell me if this is basically how it works:
1. the process begins with the big pool of available trips.
2. The #1 pilot gets whatever they want (within FAR rules etc), and those trips are taken out of the pool.
3. As each pilot bids, the pool of trips gets smaller.
4. When it gets to me, for example, I start with the pool of remaining trips. I can bid things like “avoid showtimes before 9am”, “avoid weekends”, etc, which takes those out of the pool. Then it tries to build me a line from the remaining trips, and I can say things like “award trips with layovers in MCO” or “award any 3-day trip starting on a Monday”.
5. Reserve is basically the same except I can specify days I’d liked to avoid or be awarded, and it will try to meet those requests while following company rules such as not allowing less than a 3-day block.
6. it’s unable to build me a schedule with my requests, perhaps because I said “give me my kid’s birthday off or else abandon this whole bid group”, then it goes to my next bid group, and maybe I try a reserve request to get that birthday off. And I can do a bunch of bid groups to try different things if desired.
To me, this is very simple and easy to understand. It can get complicated due to holiday coverage and complex requests, but the bottom line is that it’s just a line-by-line request, like computer coding, and it’s always possible to see where someone messed up if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Big picture, is this how United’s PBS works? Any key differences or headaches?
01-23-2024, 04:46 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 726
All of the above is theoretically accurate, except for our contractual “g-line”, above which all bidders are guaranteed a legal flying line. This results in some trips that senior bidders would ordinarily hold being awarded to junior bidders to make their schedule legal (or “feasible”). This can also result in a bidder getting a reserve schedule while a junior bidder gets a line due to constraints somewhere in the month. The result is *mostly* by seniority while meeting contractual restrictions.
The BAT is a great tool QC tool to verify your bid for legality but in no way should be construed to resemble your actual award.
The BAT is a great tool QC tool to verify your bid for legality but in no way should be construed to resemble your actual award.
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