maxru

it’s just “far 121 pic” google search away

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436#

goinaround

(c) For the purpose of satisfying the flight hour requirement in paragraph (a)(3) of this section, a pilot may credit 500 hours of military flight time provided the flight time was obtained—

(1) As pilot in command in a multiengine, turbine-powered, fixed-wing airplane or powered-lift aircraft, or any combination thereof; and

(2) In an operation requiring more than one pilot

ThumbsUp

To answer the rest of your question, no, this is not some special rule that needs to be implemented by the contract. It’s just a part of the FAR PIC minimums.

pangolin

121 is a us regulation. There is no 121 time abroad.

Colt

My understanding was that military pilots (with no prior 121 experience) are not eligible for direct hire captain at United. They could only have 500 of the 1,000 required hours and therefore not legal by FAA rules. Can anyone confirm this is true?

TOGALOCK

This is correct.

It’s also important to note that despite the verbiage flying around, United isn’t hiring “direct entry captains”. That phrase is meant to mean that you interview and get hired directly into the left seat without any time as a first officer for that company. United, on the other hand, is offering some captain vacancies that eligible pilots can bid on in indoc. However, they will still train as a first officer and work as a first officer for at least a year until meeting the internal requirements. Only then will they go to upgrade training. They aren’t a direct entry captain, they are simply locking in their upgrade award for a later date.

Colt

Thank you.
It seems odd to me, since United requires 500hrs SIC at the company before you can upgrade anyway...so you'd have the 1,000hrs required by the FAA at upgrade time if you had 500 military PIC.

Won't this result in new-hire Captains with less seniority getting Captain pay and upgrading ahead of probationary mil pilots who meet the FAA required minimums at ~9 months into United flying?

ThumbsUp

There are FOs with decades at the company, so I’m not sure why the timeline matters relative to other captains. However, any pilot that meets the FAR PIC minimums can bid on a captain vacancy, even while on probation right now. So if things are like they are right now, at 9 months, that person could also bid captain.

It’s kind of like the CAs coming from Emirates or other foreign carriers. None of that time counts for anything either. If they had 500 hours 121 SIC before going there, and 10000 hours PIC in an A380, they still wouldn’t be eligible to bid in BI.

TOGALOCK

No. Reference the rest of my post above. There aren’t direct entry captains at United. They are simply offering captain vacancies to new hires that will become effective at a later date upon meeting all internal requirements. Anyone bidding a captain spot right now in indoc will not be a captain or receive captain pay until they have 500 hours of time at United AND off of probation (~ 1 year).

So, if you started today class and got an award for FO 737, that is what you will train for. If, in the next class, someone junior to you with the requisite experience gets awarded a captain bid, they are still junior to you and you will still likely be a captain before them due to your previous 500 hours of qualifying time. You will be eligible to bid captain while on probation once you hit the 1000 hours of FAR required time.

Seniority only goes so far and is trumped by FAA requirements. This is also seen at the regional airlines right now who are very short on captains. If a pilot makes a lateral jump from regional A to regional B with 500 hours of 121 SIC time, they will upgrade at airline B well before a fresh faced CFI with 0 121 time who was hired at airline B the month prior.

As ThumbsUp said, we have some extremely experienced pilots coming from foreign airlines who were captains on 777s and A380s who, as a result of the regulations they previously flew under, don’t have the qualifying 121 time to take an upgrade award at United (or any US airline for that matter). You will still likely upgrade before them if you choose to even though they may be senior to you.

Colt

Okay, that is good to know. So, the only real difference is getting paid for Captain at 350hrs, whereas the 9month bidder gets Captain pay after completion of their upgrade training at 15-18 months at the earliest. I think that is like a $200K difference these days...which is obviously chump change.