Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

Not being argumentative or snarky at all. Did something change? I have a screenshot from a buddy in the first class that had captain vacancies showing the pay beginning at 350 hours regardless of being trained under 9-K-1 or 8-I-1-(a).

A PDR response/interpretation of 8-F-12-e seemed to jive with this. I was particularly curious because I’m one of the probationary captains (former bus captain elsewhere) and was hoping I’d receive captain pay starting at 350 hours. I was told that it only applies to new hires taking a vacancy in indoc.

Originally Posted by glassnpowder98

How things are currently being assigned to new hires:

8-F Activation Of Assignment
8-F-1 A Pilot’s date of “activation” shall be the date they begin in a new Category and is set by:
8-F-1-a completion of LOE in that Category; or
8-F-1-b the first day on which they begin a schedule in that new Category, when no training is
required.

Whichs means to get sent to upgrade training and then earn CA pay after LOE:
you need 1000 hours of FAA required time, 500 hours at United (can count towards the 1000 FAA time), and off probation.

The company has the option to implement this but as of yet has not:

8-F-12-e An 8-F-12 New Hire Pilot will be paid at their awarded or assigned Captain rate
starting upon reaching the Section 9-K-1 minimums.
9-K-1 An Accelerated Pilot must meet the following requirements before starting Captain upgrade
aircraft training:
9-K-1-a Complete their probationary CQ event as a First Officer.
9-K-1-b Complete a minimum of 350 hours of Flight Time as a United First Officer in the
Equipment for which they hold a Captain vacancy.
9-K-1-c Not have had any short cycles or be the subject of a Probationary Review Panel during
their initial New Hire training or continuing qualification training.

9-K-1 doesn’t say anything about starting training, finishing LOE, or turning a wheel, so if you have a clean training record, 350 hours, and completed your first CQ event, you should get CA pay. But again, the company hasn’t chosen to train under this provision yet.

There’s also this nugget which muddies the water even more (I love lawyer speak):

8-F-12-d Within seven (7) days of a New Hire being awarded or assigned a Captain position,
the Company will inform the Pilot whether they will be trained using the Section 9-K-1 or
Section 8-I-1-(a) minimums. For any purpose where an effective date is utilized in the UPA, a
New Hire Pilot will be provided an imputed effective date of the later of: 1) reaching the
Section 9-K-1 or Section 8-I-1-(a) minimums as applicable to the Company designation; or 2)
the effective date associated with the Vacancy Bid that included their Captain vacancy. The
imputed effective date does not need to be the same as the effective date of any particular
vacancy award and 8-F-12 Pilots from the same new hire class can have different imputed
effective dates. This Section 8-F-12-d also applies to probationary Pilots awarded the Captain
position in accordance with Section 8-I-1-b.

Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

Not being argumentative or snarky at all. Did something change? I have a screenshot from a buddy in the first class that had captain vacancies showing the pay beginning at 350 hours regardless of being trained under 9-K-1 or 8-I-1-(a).

A PDR response/interpretation of 8-F-12-e seemed to jive with this. I was particularly curious because I’m one of the probationary captains (former bus captain elsewhere) and was hoping I’d receive captain pay starting at 350 hours. I was told that it only applies to new hires taking a vacancy in indoc.

Originally Posted by ThumbsUp

Yes, that’s correct. Probationary captains will never receive the pay after 350 hours. The fact that the company is not using 9K-1 minimums, and what those minimums are in the company’s view (does it include the MV, etc.) will probably be settled over the next 9 months when the first new hire hits their MV. The bidding document provided to new hires discusses the pay, but using 9K-1 mins, which we are not using. I think that once the first new hire hits 9 months and doesn’t get paid, there will be a grievance unless it’s settled before then.

Originally Posted by TOGALOCK

Thank you. Glad to know this is all going off without a hitch 😆

Originally Posted by ThumbsUp

Personally, I’m surprised that it wasn’t addressed on the implementation schedule that probationary pilots bidding on CA vacancies would receive the same pay logic. Considering that it is a new provision, no one on probabtion would have had the opportunity to bid these positions as new hires. What constitutes a new hire is inferred to be someone in BI, BTW. It is not explicitly defined. I also expect this to cause some issues. In UAL vernacular, half-winger, new hire, and probationary pilot are often used interchangeably .

Originally Posted by mastersystem

Is a new hire with no part 121 in the US but plenty of 121 time outside US eligible to bid for Captain position?

Originally Posted by mastersystem

Is a new hire with no part 121 in the US but plenty of 121 time outside US eligible to bid for Captain position?

Originally Posted by jlondono50

What is the military pilot PIC time exemption exactly? I haven't been able to find that.
Do 500 of those "cargo" hours count to the 1000? It is 500 vs 1000 hours in Part 121?

Is this part of the expedited rules, meaning that they need to implement the laundry list of items before they can do that?
Also, what types of planes have they considered? Just cargo? Tankers? Special Ops?

Thanks!