SF20007

Dang. For how long would I have to embrace the suck? Does seniority move far slower?

Brickfire

ballpark 10 years to a line probably. Although after 2 years you could bail back to NBFO (or WBFO) as desired.
5+ years you could probably hold weekday reserve.

ThumbsUp

It’s not like that on reserve, but that is a junior lineholder schedule.

dailyops

Not entirely accurate. It is 25 months after meeting captain requirements. So in total probably about 3 years from initial indoc to change BES.

Then once you change you'll be in a 24 to 36 month bidding freeze depending if you changed bases or not and can only upgrade on that fleet in that time.

Hedley

System seniority is what determines vacancy awards and relative seniority within base/equipment/seat (BES). You are given a system number on day one. Relative seniority determines your QOL. The more senior you are in your BES, the better trips you get, better vacations, better days off etc. Someone getting a NBCA award as a new hire would be super junior for years while senior pilots with lower seniority numbers bid on top of them. Most people don’t bid captain vacancies until they can do it at the seniority of their choosing, and every pilot already on the list when you show up will be forever be senior to you. Someone getting NBFO will gain relative seniority much quicker and enjoy a higher quality of life, although with a lower pay rate than a NBCA of the same seniority. NBFO is the lowest pay grade that we have and very few people will bid on top of you, especially on the 320/737 fleets. NBCA is much more senior and your relative seniority won’t move much for years due to others bidding over you.

SF20007

Thank you. Very informative. Any insight on how long for WBFO at IAD? And what that schedule would look like?

Hedley

I don’t know very much about IAD, but my advice would be to gain relative seniority as fast as you can, and that will happen on the 320/737. Eventually the music will stop and seniority progression will grind to a halt. Being junior in a senior seat is not where you want to be. Personally, I stayed a 737 FO until my kids went off to college. I was super senior in my seat and had a great QOL. I may have left money on the table, but I was home for every holiday, every family event, I flew the trips that I wanted and when I wanted, and usually got first pick on vacation bidding. I then bid WBFO and then NBCA with the seniority to avoid trips that I didn’t want to fly and have pretty good control over my schedule. If I had it to do over I wouldn’t change a thing. All the money in the world won’t buy back time away from your family. Assuming that you retired from the military, you have a pension to make up for the difference in pay between CA and FO. Your focus from this point on should not be to have a schedule and life that is slightly better than what you had before, it should be focused on what is the best possible life moving forward from your first day of class.

744ButtonPusher

That’s the point.. if it’s not covered in the implementation LOA it takes effect DOS.. the specific paragraph about offering the slots to new hires is not mentioned in the LOA, only the part where they can start training is.. therefore they can offer new hires any unfilled CA vacancies effective DOS..

now they still have to to release all freezes before they can offer them to new hires however.

744ButtonPusher

if you do not have any 121 time you would not be eligible for a captain vacancy until you meet the FAR requirements anyway.

CHAIRMAN

Have seat locks been release per 8-D-6 and every probationary pilots been offered the upgrade? There are currently zero captain slots in inventory to be offered to a new hire until post ratification another vacancy bid and then going though the unfilled process. If they do use the provision for new hire pilots by the end of the year, they will be eligible for a bump per the UPA before the Aug 24 bid period.