Tell me what’s better at United
09-25-2023, 10:53 AM
#21
Bent over by buybacks
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 777
The premise of this thread is absurd. A guy oversharing his life story and family income in a TLDR post on an anonymous message board directing a bunch of strangers to convince him to do something he doesn't want to do.
09-25-2023, 11:09 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 148
Names have been changed to protect the… uh …innocent?…
Why would you give up the opportunity to listen to Capt Bill tell you how he walked uphill both ways to school and you should be grateful to him for the same “opportunity”, since he didn’t think to fix the walk for people after him cause it cuts into his ‘negotiating capital’. (I guess as a substitute you could just read some of the contract threads)
Or the guy who introduces himself to you as, “hi, I’m for 67, my names Bob.”
Or the Capt Bogart who says “see this pill I take? It makes me ejaculate more.”
I’ve made nothing up. I have an extensive list of characters but didn’t want my post to be as long as yours.
In all seriousness, grass is greener, blah blah, you’ve got the major talking points already except that slinging bags is fun now, wait till your nearing 50, missing 20+ years of seniority and thinking, “man, I don’t have to sling bags there…”
Why would you give up the opportunity to listen to Capt Bill tell you how he walked uphill both ways to school and you should be grateful to him for the same “opportunity”, since he didn’t think to fix the walk for people after him cause it cuts into his ‘negotiating capital’. (I guess as a substitute you could just read some of the contract threads)
Or the guy who introduces himself to you as, “hi, I’m for 67, my names Bob.”
Or the Capt Bogart who says “see this pill I take? It makes me ejaculate more.”
I’ve made nothing up. I have an extensive list of characters but didn’t want my post to be as long as yours.
In all seriousness, grass is greener, blah blah, you’ve got the major talking points already except that slinging bags is fun now, wait till your nearing 50, missing 20+ years of seniority and thinking, “man, I don’t have to sling bags there…”
09-25-2023, 12:15 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
This sounds just like the guys back in the day who said they couldn't take the pay cut, were just fine being senior flying the turboprop. Then fast forward 10 years when all the FOs they flew with are now captains at the major, and they rail against the system for being what it is.
09-25-2023, 12:18 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,244
I quit skimming at “13 days of work.” Sounds awful.
09-25-2023, 12:46 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2023
Posts: 124
This right here is the gap between generations.
The OP is a young pilot that seems to be in his 20s based on the info in his post. He is asking online in the hornet's nest of APC to get the most negative opinions on his analysis of trying to decide the next 35+ years of his life. You don't have to answer- but if you are on here you probably have too much time on your hand and scrolling through AI enhanced chicks or overpriced toys on facebook marketplace (boomers) or Instagram (millenials) or TikTok (Gen Z) has gotten boring so here you are.
As for my opinion- as a 38 year old career changer- you know you will make more in 121, you know you will work less at the end. Especially at the end of your career, getting in at your age probably means you will retire in top 10%. That is widebody captain at $500 per hour (at least) working a few trips a month to cool foreign places. You know your schedule will be 1-4 day trips. You can still teach in Denver if you want. You won't have to sling bags and clean lavs. You won't go to as many cool or exotic places, you won't get to go to fun small airports, you won't get confirmed leisure travel on points or miles, you won't get the hotel points.
From having a sim partner that came from a 135 op it was a pretty big transition for him to have to do all the call outs and actually run checklists so the voice recorder hears what it needs to hear. Having to reference manuals to appease check airmen also kind of got to him. Not to say that NJ is not professional, just flying 121 is a bit different and more formal when it comes to call outs and how to fly. Its not your plane, its theirs, they are going to tell you how they want it flown and where to fly it to.
Its a decision only you can make- you live in Denver. I am sure next time NJ deadheads you to the plane you can ask some pilot waiting around for his opinion on it.
Personally I think you should go for it. You can always go back to flying NJ or some other corporate gig with your time in type plus 121 experience
09-25-2023, 01:18 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,961
The overwhelming pressure to apply from my coworkers and a significant amount of FOMO is bringing me to post this here.
Scenario: I am currently working at NetJets. I really like working at NetJets. I’m a First Officer and starting next week I’ll hold a schedule that has me working 13 days a month, maximum. I can hopefully upgrade in 2024. I will lose the 13 days a month schedule but can hold a 15 days of work / month schedule guaranteed. I am based in DEN. I have pretty good schedule flexibility, and have been able to be home for Christmas and important family events since working here. My healthcare is free and excellent. My wife likes the benefits and the schedule and the company. I don’t get paid very much compared to you guys and gals. I expect I’ll make probably $120k-ish as a year 2 FO and probably $180k-200k-ish whenever I upgrade. I pull in another couple dozen grand from a part time job as a sim instructor. My wife pulls about $140k from her job but she would like to be able to stop working in the next 5 or so years. Captains I talk to on schedules I like at the top end of the payscale say they make about $275k-$300k all-in. I’ve seen variance to that but the numbers seem to average out around there for guys working a normal amount. In my opinion that’s not a terrible salary, in this day and age, but it’s 60% of what you guys make. 401k is okay, 60% match up to 80% of my salary and some direct contribution from flight incentive pay but it’s definitely not 18% DC. I’m on track to put roughly $50k/year into the account, with somewhere between $7-$9m by the time I retire if I can make 7% returns. By my math I’d be leaving millions on the table in retirement, but retiring a multi-millionaire is still attainable at NJ.
So let’s break down what I care about. Schedule is probably #1. Being able to have some level of control / flexibility is critical. I have historically been very successful in using tour slides, PTO, vacation, and smart bidding to get the days off that I want, so I essentially feel in very firm control of my schedule as an FO. At year 10 I’ll be 36, I’ll have 6 weeks of PTO, so working 116-140 days a year for the remaining ~30 years of my career. I’ll hit the top 30% of the seniority list at age 45, based exclusively on retirements, not airline / other attrition, and top 10% early 50s. I love my schedule at NetJets. It’s really damn good. When I’m off/on is far more important to me than what legs I’m flying when I’m at work, but I wouldn’t say no to being able to control both (eg turns, 2-days, no early shows, etc). How much seniority does it take to get what I have here at United as a DEN SIC/PIC? How much control does your contract allow for the flying? I don’t know much about 121 except that it’s completely different to how we bid here.
Next is benefits. I discussed retirement already, I know that what I have won’t match DC but I still expect to be able to retire handsomely. My healthcare is free, no premiums or deductible, even with family. Just copays ranging from $20 for regular visits to $150 for ER / childbirth / cancer etc. What does it cost at United for a family of 4?
I currently keep all my points for travel, I’m United Platinum and Hilton Diamond etc and love being able to travel for free. I recently did first class on UAL to Hawaii on points with my wife, and we booked roundtrip Polaris to Europe next spring on points and I would be loathe to give up that perk. I used CASS / ZED in a previous job and did not prefer it to what I have now. What makes non-rev travel on United special as an employee / pilot?
Talk to me about Denver. The only reason United is the legacy I’m considering is because it’s a monolith in Denver. How long to hold as FO / Captain / line holder? Commuting to a coast to fly a wide body and/or being on Global reserve are currently my worst nightmare and I know I’d feel like I’d made a mistake if I ended up having to do that. I have no desire to fly long haul international, either at NetJets or United. How long would it last if I got that assignment? My first choice would be NB in DEN. What are the reserve rules like?
My final point to make is you may notice that I didn’t bring up the usual complaints of a charter pilot. I truly have absolutely no qualms with loading bags and getting the catering and cleaning the cabin. I’ve been flying charter for 5 years and only 1 year of that in an airplane with an APU, and I’ve never found that it materially impacts my job satisfaction. I also frankly don’t work overly hard in this job, my current average is 9 hours of duty and 15 hour overnights. I’ve flown 476 hours in the past year and 104 in the last 90 days. As a personal preference, I’m a bit of a slam clicker and I don’t mind reserve at hotel or FBO where I can sit on my ass and get paid a minimum salary vs actually flying and making a bit more.
I truly like being a charter pilot and have absolutely no experience with 121 airline flying, so it’s kinda terrifying to contemplate giving up something that’s working very well for me for the big unknown of UAL (assuming I could even get an offer).
Based on the above, when could United deliver what I currently have already? What is the timeline in a year, 5 years, and 10 years when it comes to schedule control, guaranteed time off, and benefits for someone who would only consider working there to be based in Denver in a NB airplane? I’ve been told it’s way better, but no one has been able to be very specific with me about how it’s better, and how I know it will be better. NJ at least is a beast that I understand. 1 in hand vs 2 in bush, y’know?
I appreciate your insight. I’ve posted this dilemma elsewhere and in general the response from the internet and my peers at NetJets is that I’m obviously taking crazy-pills for not already having applied at any legacy, much less United.
Scenario: I am currently working at NetJets. I really like working at NetJets. I’m a First Officer and starting next week I’ll hold a schedule that has me working 13 days a month, maximum. I can hopefully upgrade in 2024. I will lose the 13 days a month schedule but can hold a 15 days of work / month schedule guaranteed. I am based in DEN. I have pretty good schedule flexibility, and have been able to be home for Christmas and important family events since working here. My healthcare is free and excellent. My wife likes the benefits and the schedule and the company. I don’t get paid very much compared to you guys and gals. I expect I’ll make probably $120k-ish as a year 2 FO and probably $180k-200k-ish whenever I upgrade. I pull in another couple dozen grand from a part time job as a sim instructor. My wife pulls about $140k from her job but she would like to be able to stop working in the next 5 or so years. Captains I talk to on schedules I like at the top end of the payscale say they make about $275k-$300k all-in. I’ve seen variance to that but the numbers seem to average out around there for guys working a normal amount. In my opinion that’s not a terrible salary, in this day and age, but it’s 60% of what you guys make. 401k is okay, 60% match up to 80% of my salary and some direct contribution from flight incentive pay but it’s definitely not 18% DC. I’m on track to put roughly $50k/year into the account, with somewhere between $7-$9m by the time I retire if I can make 7% returns. By my math I’d be leaving millions on the table in retirement, but retiring a multi-millionaire is still attainable at NJ.
So let’s break down what I care about. Schedule is probably #1. Being able to have some level of control / flexibility is critical. I have historically been very successful in using tour slides, PTO, vacation, and smart bidding to get the days off that I want, so I essentially feel in very firm control of my schedule as an FO. At year 10 I’ll be 36, I’ll have 6 weeks of PTO, so working 116-140 days a year for the remaining ~30 years of my career. I’ll hit the top 30% of the seniority list at age 45, based exclusively on retirements, not airline / other attrition, and top 10% early 50s. I love my schedule at NetJets. It’s really damn good. When I’m off/on is far more important to me than what legs I’m flying when I’m at work, but I wouldn’t say no to being able to control both (eg turns, 2-days, no early shows, etc). How much seniority does it take to get what I have here at United as a DEN SIC/PIC? How much control does your contract allow for the flying? I don’t know much about 121 except that it’s completely different to how we bid here.
Next is benefits. I discussed retirement already, I know that what I have won’t match DC but I still expect to be able to retire handsomely. My healthcare is free, no premiums or deductible, even with family. Just copays ranging from $20 for regular visits to $150 for ER / childbirth / cancer etc. What does it cost at United for a family of 4?
I currently keep all my points for travel, I’m United Platinum and Hilton Diamond etc and love being able to travel for free. I recently did first class on UAL to Hawaii on points with my wife, and we booked roundtrip Polaris to Europe next spring on points and I would be loathe to give up that perk. I used CASS / ZED in a previous job and did not prefer it to what I have now. What makes non-rev travel on United special as an employee / pilot?
Talk to me about Denver. The only reason United is the legacy I’m considering is because it’s a monolith in Denver. How long to hold as FO / Captain / line holder? Commuting to a coast to fly a wide body and/or being on Global reserve are currently my worst nightmare and I know I’d feel like I’d made a mistake if I ended up having to do that. I have no desire to fly long haul international, either at NetJets or United. How long would it last if I got that assignment? My first choice would be NB in DEN. What are the reserve rules like?
My final point to make is you may notice that I didn’t bring up the usual complaints of a charter pilot. I truly have absolutely no qualms with loading bags and getting the catering and cleaning the cabin. I’ve been flying charter for 5 years and only 1 year of that in an airplane with an APU, and I’ve never found that it materially impacts my job satisfaction. I also frankly don’t work overly hard in this job, my current average is 9 hours of duty and 15 hour overnights. I’ve flown 476 hours in the past year and 104 in the last 90 days. As a personal preference, I’m a bit of a slam clicker and I don’t mind reserve at hotel or FBO where I can sit on my ass and get paid a minimum salary vs actually flying and making a bit more.
I truly like being a charter pilot and have absolutely no experience with 121 airline flying, so it’s kinda terrifying to contemplate giving up something that’s working very well for me for the big unknown of UAL (assuming I could even get an offer).
Based on the above, when could United deliver what I currently have already? What is the timeline in a year, 5 years, and 10 years when it comes to schedule control, guaranteed time off, and benefits for someone who would only consider working there to be based in Denver in a NB airplane? I’ve been told it’s way better, but no one has been able to be very specific with me about how it’s better, and how I know it will be better. NJ at least is a beast that I understand. 1 in hand vs 2 in bush, y’know?
I appreciate your insight. I’ve posted this dilemma elsewhere and in general the response from the internet and my peers at NetJets is that I’m obviously taking crazy-pills for not already having applied at any legacy, much less United.
Nothing, unless you like getting paid even when you don’t fly, or opportunities outside of flying the line if you live in Denver or Chicago.
09-25-2023, 02:22 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 133
The overwhelming pressure to apply from my coworkers and a significant amount of FOMO is bringing me to post this here.
Scenario: I am currently working at NetJets. I really like working at NetJets. I’m a First Officer and starting next week I’ll hold a schedule that has me working 13 days a month, maximum. I can hopefully upgrade in 2024. I will lose the 13 days a month schedule but can hold a 15 days of work / month schedule guaranteed. I am based in DEN. I have pretty good schedule flexibility, and have been able to be home for Christmas and important family events since working here. My healthcare is free and excellent. My wife likes the benefits and the schedule and the company. I don’t get paid very much compared to you guys and gals. I expect I’ll make probably $120k-ish as a year 2 FO and probably $180k-200k-ish whenever I upgrade. I pull in another couple dozen grand from a part time job as a sim instructor. My wife pulls about $140k from her job but she would like to be able to stop working in the next 5 or so years. Captains I talk to on schedules I like at the top end of the payscale say they make about $275k-$300k all-in. I’ve seen variance to that but the numbers seem to average out around there for guys working a normal amount. In my opinion that’s not a terrible salary, in this day and age, but it’s 60% of what you guys make. 401k is okay, 60% match up to 80% of my salary and some direct contribution from flight incentive pay but it’s definitely not 18% DC. I’m on track to put roughly $50k/year into the account, with somewhere between $7-$9m by the time I retire if I can make 7% returns. By my math I’d be leaving millions on the table in retirement, but retiring a multi-millionaire is still attainable at NJ.
So let’s break down what I care about. Schedule is probably #1. Being able to have some level of control / flexibility is critical. I have historically been very successful in using tour slides, PTO, vacation, and smart bidding to get the days off that I want, so I essentially feel in very firm control of my schedule as an FO. At year 10 I’ll be 36, I’ll have 6 weeks of PTO, so working 116-140 days a year for the remaining ~30 years of my career. I’ll hit the top 30% of the seniority list at age 45, based exclusively on retirements, not airline / other attrition, and top 10% early 50s. I love my schedule at NetJets. It’s really damn good. When I’m off/on is far more important to me than what legs I’m flying when I’m at work, but I wouldn’t say no to being able to control both (eg turns, 2-days, no early shows, etc). How much seniority does it take to get what I have here at United as a DEN SIC/PIC? How much control does your contract allow for the flying? I don’t know much about 121 except that it’s completely different to how we bid here.
Next is benefits. I discussed retirement already, I know that what I have won’t match DC but I still expect to be able to retire handsomely. My healthcare is free, no premiums or deductible, even with family. Just copays ranging from $20 for regular visits to $150 for ER / childbirth / cancer etc. What does it cost at United for a family of 4?
I currently keep all my points for travel, I’m United Platinum and Hilton Diamond etc and love being able to travel for free. I recently did first class on UAL to Hawaii on points with my wife, and we booked roundtrip Polaris to Europe next spring on points and I would be loathe to give up that perk. I used CASS / ZED in a previous job and did not prefer it to what I have now. What makes non-rev travel on United special as an employee / pilot?
Talk to me about Denver. The only reason United is the legacy I’m considering is because it’s a monolith in Denver. How long to hold as FO / Captain / line holder? Commuting to a coast to fly a wide body and/or being on Global reserve are currently my worst nightmare and I know I’d feel like I’d made a mistake if I ended up having to do that. I have no desire to fly long haul international, either at NetJets or United. How long would it last if I got that assignment? My first choice would be NB in DEN. What are the reserve rules like?
My final point to make is you may notice that I didn’t bring up the usual complaints of a charter pilot. I truly have absolutely no qualms with loading bags and getting the catering and cleaning the cabin. I’ve been flying charter for 5 years and only 1 year of that in an airplane with an APU, and I’ve never found that it materially impacts my job satisfaction. I also frankly don’t work overly hard in this job, my current average is 9 hours of duty and 15 hour overnights. I’ve flown 476 hours in the past year and 104 in the last 90 days. As a personal preference, I’m a bit of a slam clicker and I don’t mind reserve at hotel or FBO where I can sit on my ass and get paid a minimum salary vs actually flying and making a bit more.
I truly like being a charter pilot and have absolutely no experience with 121 airline flying, so it’s kinda terrifying to contemplate giving up something that’s working very well for me for the big unknown of UAL (assuming I could even get an offer).
Based on the above, when could United deliver what I currently have already? What is the timeline in a year, 5 years, and 10 years when it comes to schedule control, guaranteed time off, and benefits for someone who would only consider working there to be based in Denver in a NB airplane? I’ve been told it’s way better, but no one has been able to be very specific with me about how it’s better, and how I know it will be better. NJ at least is a beast that I understand. 1 in hand vs 2 in bush, y’know?
I appreciate your insight. I’ve posted this dilemma elsewhere and in general the response from the internet and my peers at NetJets is that I’m obviously taking crazy-pills for not already having applied at any legacy, much less United.
Scenario: I am currently working at NetJets. I really like working at NetJets. I’m a First Officer and starting next week I’ll hold a schedule that has me working 13 days a month, maximum. I can hopefully upgrade in 2024. I will lose the 13 days a month schedule but can hold a 15 days of work / month schedule guaranteed. I am based in DEN. I have pretty good schedule flexibility, and have been able to be home for Christmas and important family events since working here. My healthcare is free and excellent. My wife likes the benefits and the schedule and the company. I don’t get paid very much compared to you guys and gals. I expect I’ll make probably $120k-ish as a year 2 FO and probably $180k-200k-ish whenever I upgrade. I pull in another couple dozen grand from a part time job as a sim instructor. My wife pulls about $140k from her job but she would like to be able to stop working in the next 5 or so years. Captains I talk to on schedules I like at the top end of the payscale say they make about $275k-$300k all-in. I’ve seen variance to that but the numbers seem to average out around there for guys working a normal amount. In my opinion that’s not a terrible salary, in this day and age, but it’s 60% of what you guys make. 401k is okay, 60% match up to 80% of my salary and some direct contribution from flight incentive pay but it’s definitely not 18% DC. I’m on track to put roughly $50k/year into the account, with somewhere between $7-$9m by the time I retire if I can make 7% returns. By my math I’d be leaving millions on the table in retirement, but retiring a multi-millionaire is still attainable at NJ.
So let’s break down what I care about. Schedule is probably #1. Being able to have some level of control / flexibility is critical. I have historically been very successful in using tour slides, PTO, vacation, and smart bidding to get the days off that I want, so I essentially feel in very firm control of my schedule as an FO. At year 10 I’ll be 36, I’ll have 6 weeks of PTO, so working 116-140 days a year for the remaining ~30 years of my career. I’ll hit the top 30% of the seniority list at age 45, based exclusively on retirements, not airline / other attrition, and top 10% early 50s. I love my schedule at NetJets. It’s really damn good. When I’m off/on is far more important to me than what legs I’m flying when I’m at work, but I wouldn’t say no to being able to control both (eg turns, 2-days, no early shows, etc). How much seniority does it take to get what I have here at United as a DEN SIC/PIC? How much control does your contract allow for the flying? I don’t know much about 121 except that it’s completely different to how we bid here.
Next is benefits. I discussed retirement already, I know that what I have won’t match DC but I still expect to be able to retire handsomely. My healthcare is free, no premiums or deductible, even with family. Just copays ranging from $20 for regular visits to $150 for ER / childbirth / cancer etc. What does it cost at United for a family of 4?
I currently keep all my points for travel, I’m United Platinum and Hilton Diamond etc and love being able to travel for free. I recently did first class on UAL to Hawaii on points with my wife, and we booked roundtrip Polaris to Europe next spring on points and I would be loathe to give up that perk. I used CASS / ZED in a previous job and did not prefer it to what I have now. What makes non-rev travel on United special as an employee / pilot?
Talk to me about Denver. The only reason United is the legacy I’m considering is because it’s a monolith in Denver. How long to hold as FO / Captain / line holder? Commuting to a coast to fly a wide body and/or being on Global reserve are currently my worst nightmare and I know I’d feel like I’d made a mistake if I ended up having to do that. I have no desire to fly long haul international, either at NetJets or United. How long would it last if I got that assignment? My first choice would be NB in DEN. What are the reserve rules like?
My final point to make is you may notice that I didn’t bring up the usual complaints of a charter pilot. I truly have absolutely no qualms with loading bags and getting the catering and cleaning the cabin. I’ve been flying charter for 5 years and only 1 year of that in an airplane with an APU, and I’ve never found that it materially impacts my job satisfaction. I also frankly don’t work overly hard in this job, my current average is 9 hours of duty and 15 hour overnights. I’ve flown 476 hours in the past year and 104 in the last 90 days. As a personal preference, I’m a bit of a slam clicker and I don’t mind reserve at hotel or FBO where I can sit on my ass and get paid a minimum salary vs actually flying and making a bit more.
I truly like being a charter pilot and have absolutely no experience with 121 airline flying, so it’s kinda terrifying to contemplate giving up something that’s working very well for me for the big unknown of UAL (assuming I could even get an offer).
Based on the above, when could United deliver what I currently have already? What is the timeline in a year, 5 years, and 10 years when it comes to schedule control, guaranteed time off, and benefits for someone who would only consider working there to be based in Denver in a NB airplane? I’ve been told it’s way better, but no one has been able to be very specific with me about how it’s better, and how I know it will be better. NJ at least is a beast that I understand. 1 in hand vs 2 in bush, y’know?
I appreciate your insight. I’ve posted this dilemma elsewhere and in general the response from the internet and my peers at NetJets is that I’m obviously taking crazy-pills for not already having applied at any legacy, much less United.
09-25-2023, 03:19 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 124
The overwhelming pressure to apply from my coworkers and a significant amount of FOMO is bringing me to post this here.
Scenario: I am currently working at NetJets. I really like working at NetJets. I’m a First Officer and starting next week I’ll hold a schedule that has me working 13 days a month, maximum. I can hopefully upgrade in 2024. I will lose the 13 days a month schedule but can hold a 15 days of work / month schedule guaranteed. I am based in DEN. I have pretty good schedule flexibility, and have been able to be home for Christmas and important family events since working here. My healthcare is free and excellent. My wife likes the benefits and the schedule and the company. I don’t get paid very much compared to you guys and gals. I expect I’ll make probably $120k-ish as a year 2 FO and probably $180k-200k-ish whenever I upgrade. I pull in another couple dozen grand from a part time job as a sim instructor. My wife pulls about $140k from her job but she would like to be able to stop working in the next 5 or so years. Captains I talk to on schedules I like at the top end of the payscale say they make about $275k-$300k all-in. I’ve seen variance to that but the numbers seem to average out around there for guys working a normal amount. In my opinion that’s not a terrible salary, in this day and age, but it’s 60% of what you guys make. 401k is okay, 60% match up to 80% of my salary and some direct contribution from flight incentive pay but it’s definitely not 18% DC. I’m on track to put roughly $50k/year into the account, with somewhere between $7-$9m by the time I retire if I can make 7% returns. By my math I’d be leaving millions on the table in retirement, but retiring a multi-millionaire is still attainable at NJ.
So let’s break down what I care about. Schedule is probably #1. Being able to have some level of control / flexibility is critical. I have historically been very successful in using tour slides, PTO, vacation, and smart bidding to get the days off that I want, so I essentially feel in very firm control of my schedule as an FO. At year 10 I’ll be 36, I’ll have 6 weeks of PTO, so working 116-140 days a year for the remaining ~30 years of my career. I’ll hit the top 30% of the seniority list at age 45, based exclusively on retirements, not airline / other attrition, and top 10% early 50s. I love my schedule at NetJets. It’s really damn good. When I’m off/on is far more important to me than what legs I’m flying when I’m at work, but I wouldn’t say no to being able to control both (eg turns, 2-days, no early shows, etc). How much seniority does it take to get what I have here at United as a DEN SIC/PIC? How much control does your contract allow for the flying? I don’t know much about 121 except that it’s completely different to how we bid here.
Next is benefits. I discussed retirement already, I know that what I have won’t match DC but I still expect to be able to retire handsomely. My healthcare is free, no premiums or deductible, even with family. Just copays ranging from $20 for regular visits to $150 for ER / childbirth / cancer etc. What does it cost at United for a family of 4?
I currently keep all my points for travel, I’m United Platinum and Hilton Diamond etc and love being able to travel for free. I recently did first class on UAL to Hawaii on points with my wife, and we booked roundtrip Polaris to Europe next spring on points and I would be loathe to give up that perk. I used CASS / ZED in a previous job and did not prefer it to what I have now. What makes non-rev travel on United special as an employee / pilot?
Talk to me about Denver. The only reason United is the legacy I’m considering is because it’s a monolith in Denver. How long to hold as FO / Captain / line holder? Commuting to a coast to fly a wide body and/or being on Global reserve are currently my worst nightmare and I know I’d feel like I’d made a mistake if I ended up having to do that. I have no desire to fly long haul international, either at NetJets or United. How long would it last if I got that assignment? My first choice would be NB in DEN. What are the reserve rules like?
My final point to make is you may notice that I didn’t bring up the usual complaints of a charter pilot. I truly have absolutely no qualms with loading bags and getting the catering and cleaning the cabin. I’ve been flying charter for 5 years and only 1 year of that in an airplane with an APU, and I’ve never found that it materially impacts my job satisfaction. I also frankly don’t work overly hard in this job, my current average is 9 hours of duty and 15 hour overnights. I’ve flown 476 hours in the past year and 104 in the last 90 days. As a personal preference, I’m a bit of a slam clicker and I don’t mind reserve at hotel or FBO where I can sit on my ass and get paid a minimum salary vs actually flying and making a bit more.
I truly like being a charter pilot and have absolutely no experience with 121 airline flying, so it’s kinda terrifying to contemplate giving up something that’s working very well for me for the big unknown of UAL (assuming I could even get an offer).
Based on the above, when could United deliver what I currently have already? What is the timeline in a year, 5 years, and 10 years when it comes to schedule control, guaranteed time off, and benefits for someone who would only consider working there to be based in Denver in a NB airplane? I’ve been told it’s way better, but no one has been able to be very specific with me about how it’s better, and how I know it will be better. NJ at least is a beast that I understand. 1 in hand vs 2 in bush, y’know?
I appreciate your insight. I’ve posted this dilemma elsewhere and in general the response from the internet and my peers at NetJets is that I’m obviously taking crazy-pills for not already having applied at any legacy, much less United.
Scenario: I am currently working at NetJets. I really like working at NetJets. I’m a First Officer and starting next week I’ll hold a schedule that has me working 13 days a month, maximum. I can hopefully upgrade in 2024. I will lose the 13 days a month schedule but can hold a 15 days of work / month schedule guaranteed. I am based in DEN. I have pretty good schedule flexibility, and have been able to be home for Christmas and important family events since working here. My healthcare is free and excellent. My wife likes the benefits and the schedule and the company. I don’t get paid very much compared to you guys and gals. I expect I’ll make probably $120k-ish as a year 2 FO and probably $180k-200k-ish whenever I upgrade. I pull in another couple dozen grand from a part time job as a sim instructor. My wife pulls about $140k from her job but she would like to be able to stop working in the next 5 or so years. Captains I talk to on schedules I like at the top end of the payscale say they make about $275k-$300k all-in. I’ve seen variance to that but the numbers seem to average out around there for guys working a normal amount. In my opinion that’s not a terrible salary, in this day and age, but it’s 60% of what you guys make. 401k is okay, 60% match up to 80% of my salary and some direct contribution from flight incentive pay but it’s definitely not 18% DC. I’m on track to put roughly $50k/year into the account, with somewhere between $7-$9m by the time I retire if I can make 7% returns. By my math I’d be leaving millions on the table in retirement, but retiring a multi-millionaire is still attainable at NJ.
So let’s break down what I care about. Schedule is probably #1. Being able to have some level of control / flexibility is critical. I have historically been very successful in using tour slides, PTO, vacation, and smart bidding to get the days off that I want, so I essentially feel in very firm control of my schedule as an FO. At year 10 I’ll be 36, I’ll have 6 weeks of PTO, so working 116-140 days a year for the remaining ~30 years of my career. I’ll hit the top 30% of the seniority list at age 45, based exclusively on retirements, not airline / other attrition, and top 10% early 50s. I love my schedule at NetJets. It’s really damn good. When I’m off/on is far more important to me than what legs I’m flying when I’m at work, but I wouldn’t say no to being able to control both (eg turns, 2-days, no early shows, etc). How much seniority does it take to get what I have here at United as a DEN SIC/PIC? How much control does your contract allow for the flying? I don’t know much about 121 except that it’s completely different to how we bid here.
Next is benefits. I discussed retirement already, I know that what I have won’t match DC but I still expect to be able to retire handsomely. My healthcare is free, no premiums or deductible, even with family. Just copays ranging from $20 for regular visits to $150 for ER / childbirth / cancer etc. What does it cost at United for a family of 4?
I currently keep all my points for travel, I’m United Platinum and Hilton Diamond etc and love being able to travel for free. I recently did first class on UAL to Hawaii on points with my wife, and we booked roundtrip Polaris to Europe next spring on points and I would be loathe to give up that perk. I used CASS / ZED in a previous job and did not prefer it to what I have now. What makes non-rev travel on United special as an employee / pilot?
Talk to me about Denver. The only reason United is the legacy I’m considering is because it’s a monolith in Denver. How long to hold as FO / Captain / line holder? Commuting to a coast to fly a wide body and/or being on Global reserve are currently my worst nightmare and I know I’d feel like I’d made a mistake if I ended up having to do that. I have no desire to fly long haul international, either at NetJets or United. How long would it last if I got that assignment? My first choice would be NB in DEN. What are the reserve rules like?
My final point to make is you may notice that I didn’t bring up the usual complaints of a charter pilot. I truly have absolutely no qualms with loading bags and getting the catering and cleaning the cabin. I’ve been flying charter for 5 years and only 1 year of that in an airplane with an APU, and I’ve never found that it materially impacts my job satisfaction. I also frankly don’t work overly hard in this job, my current average is 9 hours of duty and 15 hour overnights. I’ve flown 476 hours in the past year and 104 in the last 90 days. As a personal preference, I’m a bit of a slam clicker and I don’t mind reserve at hotel or FBO where I can sit on my ass and get paid a minimum salary vs actually flying and making a bit more.
I truly like being a charter pilot and have absolutely no experience with 121 airline flying, so it’s kinda terrifying to contemplate giving up something that’s working very well for me for the big unknown of UAL (assuming I could even get an offer).
Based on the above, when could United deliver what I currently have already? What is the timeline in a year, 5 years, and 10 years when it comes to schedule control, guaranteed time off, and benefits for someone who would only consider working there to be based in Denver in a NB airplane? I’ve been told it’s way better, but no one has been able to be very specific with me about how it’s better, and how I know it will be better. NJ at least is a beast that I understand. 1 in hand vs 2 in bush, y’know?
I appreciate your insight. I’ve posted this dilemma elsewhere and in general the response from the internet and my peers at NetJets is that I’m obviously taking crazy-pills for not already having applied at any legacy, much less United.
Seriously though, I’ve done both 135 and 121, and the culture aspect might be worth throwing into your list of considerations. A chill guy that doesn’t find his identity in the perceived status of being a pilot (which I detect in you since it doesn’t bother you to carry bags or clean toilets) might find it a little distasteful to commonly fly with those who do.
09-25-2023, 03:48 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 160
https://youtu.be/EeBgIqTln-I?si=fPyiAc2RkVpOuM4u
Checkout this video from a UAL NH former Emirates & Turkish. Talks about as a five month NH got 21 days off in a row
Checkout this video from a UAL NH former Emirates & Turkish. Talks about as a five month NH got 21 days off in a row
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