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09-16-2023, 08:24 AM

#41

kevin18

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Posts: 471

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swindler128

Just curious but how did this not get matched to aa in the new ta then ... it's like crickets in terms of industry leading ...

Quick math says you get 525 days off through year 20 at united vs 420 days with AAs vacation. I’ll take ours.

09-16-2023, 08:27 AM

#42

hummingbear

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Posts: 1,351

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midsomer

If you don’t like being junior bid to a senior seat...

This job is for income and family security. Work doesn’t have to be fun. It doesn’t mean it can’t be but don’t rely on your job for your happiness. Enjoy it and accept the good with the bad.

Respectfully, this is how we often fail to make big contract gains. “Just take the good with the bad” is great life advice but it’s lousy for contract negotiations. Negotiating is about clawing every benefit we can possibly get & realizing that nearly everything we enjoy today was once something people said, “Yeah, but the airline would go broke if they had to pay for X.” You don’t have to be a salty old curmudgeon to envision big improvements in the career & industry.

If we fight for the next generation the way the last one (sometimes) fought for us, someday they’ll be saying “Can you believe those guys used to fly out the same calendar day they flew a red-eye in? Or had as few as 12 days off per month?” If we don’t it’ll just be a lot of “Yeah, this job sucks, but…”

09-16-2023, 08:38 AM

#43

Race Bannon

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Posts: 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin18

Quick math says you get 525 days off through year 20 at united vs 420 days with AAs vacation. I’ll take ours.

Did you also take into account UAL is 29:45/week and AA is 25:36/week(as I understand it)? Just curious as I don't want to do the math.

09-16-2023, 10:47 AM

#44

kevin18

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Joined APC: Jun 2018

Posts: 471

Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingbear

The last generation sold out scope and created the regionals. They fought for no one but themselves and a few extra bucks on the pay scale.

09-16-2023, 11:23 AM

#45

Spartacusbob

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Joined APC: Nov 2022

Posts: 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin18

The last generation sold out scope and created the regionals. They fought for no one but themselves and a few extra bucks on the pay scale.

Weirdly just described this TA. …and they say history doesn’t repeat itself…

09-16-2023, 11:27 AM

#46

Spartacusbob

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Joined APC: Nov 2022

Posts: 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin18

Quick math says you get 525 days off through year 20 at united vs 420 days with AAs vacation. I’ll take ours.

Just as long as it only benefits those with more than 12 years of seniority, that’s fine.

09-16-2023, 11:32 AM

#47

hummingbear

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Posts: 1,351

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin18

The last generation sold out scope and created the regionals. They fought for no one but themselves and a few extra bucks on the pay scale.

I use the word generation broadly to mean those who went before us. History tells a weaving tale of those who fought & won to leave a better profession behind them, & those who snatched short-term gains by selling out the careers of their successors. Which we will be is our decision to make.

09-16-2023, 11:46 AM

#48

Race Bannon

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Posts: 190

What would be the definition of "selling out careers" WRT the TA?

AA's 17 year B-scale comes to mind. What is the new definition?

09-16-2023, 12:16 PM

#49

hummingbear

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Posts: 1,351

Quote:

Originally Posted by Race Bannon

What would be the definition of "selling out careers" WRT the TA?

I believe I introduced that phrase & wasn’t speaking specifically of the TA so unless you can be more specific, you may be connecting dots that aren’t there.

09-16-2023, 12:31 PM

#50

Race Bannon

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Joined APC: Dec 2018

Posts: 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingbear

I believe I introduced that phrase & wasn’t speaking specifically of the TA so unless you can be more specific, you may be connecting dots that aren’t there.

Could have gone either way, that's why I asked. In all fairness(you are pretty fair on your thoughts) but you have been fairly ardent in your vehement disagreement to "forced" NB capt's, thus my question.

So, in the context of this TA(thread drift being what it is) and the NB capts, you do not consider that facet as, "selling out careers"? Is that a valid assumption? Is there anything specifically in this TA that would be considered, "selling out careers" that I might be overlooking?