Age 67 fallout
09-13-2023, 05:07 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2023
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 102
Kind of hard when you keep moving the goal posts. Funny how those that have been in the left seat of a WB for 20 years, that already got another 5 years are now somehow so altruistic.
According to the survey results, those in favor of raising the age are against retroactivity. Bunch of greedy f’in hypocrites.
I’ve written every member of the senate transportation committee and told them when they hear this argument, the truth is they want to perpetuate one of the causes of the pilot shortage in the first place.
According to the survey results, those in favor of raising the age are against retroactivity. Bunch of greedy f’in hypocrites.
I’ve written every member of the senate transportation committee and told them when they hear this argument, the truth is they want to perpetuate one of the causes of the pilot shortage in the first place.
I’m sorry. Did someone move the goalposts? How unfair.
1985 strike
9/11
25% pilot furloughs plus negotiated pay cuts
Bankruptcy (lost pension/ESOP, more pay cuts)
Age 65
2008 economy downturn
Merger
More furloughs
Shrink to profitability
I will never be senior enough to be a WB CA.
You we’re saying?
09-13-2023, 05:15 PM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 37
4 1/2 years ago(prior to Covid), the seniority list was about 12K. It is now about 16.5k Did they hire those pilots for job expansion that is not needed? Are we that over manned? More jobs(maybe even in your BES) is good for the majority of people. If the number of pilots that stay past 65 is greater than 50%, then it could be argued that it was beneficial to the majority. A slight degradation in your "lack of progression" in your homestretch is almost insignificant over the course of a typical career(especially after taxes)
The point is, some things go your way(count your blessings) some don't. But to only look at it from your point of view, "I got screwed", is a bit myopic and unbalanced. When you use "perfect utopia" as the fulcrum of the scale, one will inevitable be disappointed.
The point is, some things go your way(count your blessings) some don't. But to only look at it from your point of view, "I got screwed", is a bit myopic and unbalanced. When you use "perfect utopia" as the fulcrum of the scale, one will inevitable be disappointed.
Why do you keep bringing up how many pilots are hired? That has nothing to do with Age 67. This is an age 67 thread. That is what I addressed originally and that alone. I don't need to be lectured by you about ups and downs with the biz. I took the pay cut in the ESOP, lost my pension, 9/11, BK contract and so on.
Despite all those heaping piles I have been fortunate. What I did say is that I WILL be adversely affected by AGE 67. I'm not looking for sympathy but only clarifying the posts which say "you can stil retire at 65 nothing's changed" When you get closer to the top, for some BES, just a few numbers could be a big difference. You look ahead at who's there, their seniority and their birth date, what trips they are holding. When I retire at 65 (God willing) I will be adversely affected by this change. Sorry but it's a fact.
Last edited by Oly2016; 09-13-2023 at 05:26 PM.
09-13-2023, 05:16 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,242
I’m sorry. Did someone move the goalposts? How unfair.
1985 strike
9/11
25% pilot furloughs plus negotiated pay cuts
Bankruptcy (lost pension/ESOP, more pay cuts)
Age 65
2008 economy downturn
Merger
More furloughs
Shrink to profitability
I will never be senior enough to be a WB CA.
You we’re saying?
1985 strike
9/11
25% pilot furloughs plus negotiated pay cuts
Bankruptcy (lost pension/ESOP, more pay cuts)
Age 65
2008 economy downturn
Merger
More furloughs
Shrink to profitability
I will never be senior enough to be a WB CA.
You we’re saying?
You VOTED AWAY your pension 20 years ago. Plenty of pilots managed to amass 7-8 figures in their 401k. If your argument is you can’t afford to retire because of all those things, two more years isn’t going to solve that unless your plan is to just die in the seat before it becomes an issue.
09-13-2023, 05:25 PM
#45
Orbis Non Sufficit
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 735
I’m sorry. Did someone move the goalposts? How unfair.
1985 strike
9/11
25% pilot furloughs plus negotiated pay cuts
Bankruptcy (lost pension/ESOP, more pay cuts)
Age 65
2008 economy downturn
Merger
More furloughs
Shrink to profitability
I will never be senior enough to be a WB CA.
You we’re saying?
1985 strike
9/11
25% pilot furloughs plus negotiated pay cuts
Bankruptcy (lost pension/ESOP, more pay cuts)
Age 65
2008 economy downturn
Merger
More furloughs
Shrink to profitability
I will never be senior enough to be a WB CA.
You we’re saying?
09-13-2023, 06:17 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 160
it will be up to the individual airlines and the union contracts to decide “how”. Since our contract doesn’t have any clause specific to this situation my gut tells me they will have to be stapled and take new hire bids… until lawsuits and possible LOAs are finalized… which will take years.
language that’s what will dictate the process.
09-13-2023, 08:08 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2023
Posts: 502
I’m sorry. Did someone move the goalposts? How unfair.
1985 strike
9/11
25% pilot furloughs plus negotiated pay cuts
Bankruptcy (lost pension/ESOP, more pay cuts)
Age 65
2008 economy downturn
Merger
More furloughs
Shrink to profitability
I will never be senior enough to be a WB CA.
You we’re saying?
1985 strike
9/11
25% pilot furloughs plus negotiated pay cuts
Bankruptcy (lost pension/ESOP, more pay cuts)
Age 65
2008 economy downturn
Merger
More furloughs
Shrink to profitability
I will never be senior enough to be a WB CA.
You we’re saying?
09-13-2023, 08:26 PM
#49
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,009
I don't think lack of specific language will allow anyone to "unretire" to their old seniority. Retirement is retirement, you're off the list and unemployed.
I'm sure somebody will sue, just like last time. Last time they blew a bunch of money on lawyers and got nothing to show for it.
09-13-2023, 10:01 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 160
The current language does not clearly spell it out, not as clearly as the age 65 law did.
I don't think lack of specific language will allow anyone to "unretire" to their old seniority. Retirement is retirement, you're off the list and unemployed.
I'm sure somebody will sue, just like last time. Last time they blew a bunch of money on lawyers and got nothing to show for it.
I don't think lack of specific language will allow anyone to "unretire" to their old seniority. Retirement is retirement, you're off the list and unemployed.
I'm sure somebody will sue, just like last time. Last time they blew a bunch of money on lawyers and got nothing to show for it.
The final language has yet to be created in the reconciled/merged Senate:House Bill. Only then will we know the extent of any retro. I can tell you that’s the intent of what’s in the House Bill. Will see if/when the final reconciled Bill is completed.
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