Andy

Hmmm. We can't fill NB CA seats and may start forcing newhires into the left seat.
We're already forcing newhires into WB FO seats.
No one's taking 'your' seat.

Have you gone to a union meeting and floored a resolution to seek Article 8 action?
If you have problems with these individuals, take responsibility and make it happen.
Personally, I could care less, as any actions by pilots one way or the other will have zero impact on whether or not the retirement age changes. But please chase those windmills, Mr Quixote.

ReadOnly7

That’s not good enough for the new young. They want the left seat, weekends off, nothing but Aruba and Hawaii layovers, Christmas, Thanksgiving, spring break and 2 weeks of summer vacay. I mean….they spent TWO LONG YEARS at the regionals, making 5 times what any of us did…..they’ve paid their dues, don’t you think? Oh….I forgot my insult. GRAMPA!!!
/s

ThumbsUp

Or really anyone younger than 65 on the day this passes. For everyone but those on the cusp of retirement, they will be negatively affected by the lack of movement and in some cases will see a move backwards in seniority. No sense dwelling on it, though. It's going to happen whether we like it or not.

glassnpowder98

I signed up for the quick upgrade knowing full well that it would probably be a decade before I saw another Holiday off. What I hoped we might be able to change with the leverage we have is some industry standard stuff. Why do we have FDO’s, RDO’s, and the ability for the company to work us until midnight+ on our first day off. That doesn’t just go for the junior people, if the company needs you, they’ll find you. I like making plans on my non holiday days off, but 4-10+ (depending if you’re global or not) “days off” a month where the company has the ability to work you is why a lot of people aren’t taking the NBCA or WBFO vacancies. We’ve been forcing new hires into WBFO and now we’ll be able to solve the companies NBCA problem for them instead of making life better for everyone.

I don’t really care where the company sends me on an overnight, but I’m sure the senior guy was ****ed when I got his 24 hours in PUJ and got out of 11 hours at the EWR Marriott because of visiting reserve. I spent 8 years in RJ purgatory and stand to make more signing bonus money with this TA than my first 2 years combined flying RJs. But I also was never forced to work on a day off unless it was severe IROPs or we broke pretty bad in some podunk town. Unfortunately we have a lot of people seeing dollar signs instead of trying to fix the work rules we all have to deal with.

JackReacher

I see the word “selfish” being thrown around on this thread a lot. Selfish isn’t expecting to keep what you earned. Selfish is expecting to keep what someone else has earned. That seat is not “yours” until you pass the check ride Scooter. And BTW, age 60, 65, 67??? Doesn’t matter what you or I think anyway. That decision is way above our pay grade. Retire when you want, be humble, and show a little gratitude FFS.

AvNav23

Swing and a miss the selfish part comes from the fact that I cannot bid for the seat and take the check ride until those in the seat retire. You’re correct this will be a decision made above our pay grade but those pilots cheerleading this passing are being selfish you had your time, the retirement age was/is 65. That’s when you should ride off into the sunset not work against the union and your fellow pilots to squeeze a couple more years out at the top pay rate. But you know that, I know I won’t change your mind but the black and white is Sesame Street level simple, you stay past when you should be retired you are blocking someone from holding that seat and making the pay check that is attached. There is no way to sugar coat that, thus selfish is the correct term for the behavior.

DarkSideMoon

The only “selfish” thing, in my opinion, will be in the details of implementation. If seniority is respected, and younger but senior pilots not robbed of domestic trips in PBS or narrowbody seats in vacancy bidding or in reserve assignments out of order to accommodate icao I don’t really care.

However, If you can’t hold a line and can’t fly international due to ICAO, you should be on unpaid leave. If you can’t hold a full month’s domestic schedule whatever you can hold should be your new MPG. What I don’t want to see is my schedule robbed in PBS and replaced with the MEX overnight that the 66 year old junior to me can’t fly.

enjoying the fruits of the seniority system your whole career and then upending it for the last two is selfish. Staying another 2 because the law changed is neither here nor there to me.

somehow I doubt the pro 67 crowd is going to want it implemented that way though.

rickair7777

We have absolutely nothing to do with whether it passes or not, the aren't enough pilots to tilt the scales with outraged emails to unpaid congressional interns.

We do have some input as to how it plays out when/if (probably when) it passes...

1) Engage your union people in discussion as to how CBAs/MOUs should address it.

2) Encourage your union (ALPA really) to get ahead of this with congress BEFORE the language is set in stone. The BEST way to avoid abuses of seniority in the name of ICAO age accommodation is to have protections written in the law. If you just want to be petulant and pout until it passes, then you'll have to rely on negotiated MOU's with the company.

The problem with that last is company policy/CBA/MOUs cannot supersede federal age discrimination law (ie accommodation), or nullify union DFR. That's going to be a fun minefield to navigate. Federal law on the other hand DOES supersede those things.

Race Bannon

So, if it changes , when should YOU ride off into the sunset? At the old 60. At 65? at the new 67. Or if it goes to 70 during your tenure, what defines your number and is your number the same as someone junior an/or senior....older and/or younger? IOW, what defines "selfishness" and "your number"?

I'm having a hard time nailing this down from your POV(or even mine). Can you state an unequivocal black and white rules so we all know and understand your expectations?

A320

First, Im not a 67 supporter and if you had read my posts you would know that, so i'm not spinning anything. Im not being greedy since Im not supporting the change. I'm calling out someone who carpet bombs everyone older and senior to them with the same insults they have for the 67 supporters. You are doing the same thing. This same individual also blamed an entire segment of our pilot group for selling out the RJ's during Chapter 11 causing more furloughs. They are clueless as to what went down and how things happened during that time frame. None of what happened during that time has anything to do with everyone hired after. You ramped up your assault on me hurling insults without ever reading my posts or knowing my stance on it. Personally IDGAF what you think since you shoot your mouth off and ask questions later. You don't know me at all. You also don't know that during the lost decade while many friends were getting furloughed I was dumping my schedule down to around 60 hours or less per month in the spirit of mitigating layoffs. I knew it didn't change a thing but I slept better at night for it. We are on the same side regarding A67 get that into your thick skull.

when the age changed to 65, around 98% of the pilots stuck around after 60. what makes you think its going to be any different if they change it again? What makes you think you are any better than them? There is a 98% chance you will do the same even though you are so self righteous about this today.

"the only reason that you’re sitting in the seat you are is because someone older than you reached retirement age and moved on to open that seat." THE ONLY REASON... There are a lot reasons all of us are in the seats we are in. Retirements are just one. The economy bouncing back after COVID is another. United deciding to make a rapid expansion in fleet growth is a huge factor and not permanently parking hundreds of planes during COVID when they easily could have justified it is another. If the economy turns south and UAL changes its strategy to downsizing who are you going to blame for your career expectations stalling out? What if this happens and UAL decides to park all the old Airbuses while acquiring a smaller airline that already has many NEOs on property and advance delivery allocations that are ahead of our own. You will love going through an SLI arbitration. who will you throw stones at then?