fanaticalflyer

Andy you are spot on. The "Mitigator" and "Hummingbird" are clueless and naive. It took sometimes a year or two to get transferred. And if you wanted to get to IAD or DEN, that didn't happen for 5 years for some guys because how senior those bases were. SEA was the same. LAX wasn't too far behind as well. These new-hires have it made. I have to remind some of them that their 2nd year pay was higher than our 12 year pay. I'm happy for the new bunch in almost every way, except for the whining crap I'm hearing about how they have to work weekends, and holidays, and so on. It's like the entitled folks that don't want to go back to working in an office for two days a week, thinking they are remote-only folks. Be happy you got the job, and only have it tough for maybe a year or two at most, with every option available. Heck, many past new-hires didn't even know what reserve was, and i have to explain to them the importance of ensuring we have improved reserve work rules. Oh well, history repeats. Good deeds get forgotten, and folks, especially the younger ones, only vote only for themselves. I've accepted that reality.

Hedley

Reserve today seems like a cake walk compared to what many of us went through. Being continuously in a state of rest during a 6 day reserve block until the phone rings at 8:00 PM on day 4 to start your 16 hour duty day. Then came protective rest times and we thought that was a game changer. Current 117 limitations seemed like a fantasy back then. One of the dirt bag freight outfits even determined that your 8 hours rest in a 24 hr period didn’t have to be continuous, just a look back to make sure that pilots were released for a total of 8. Fly it or you’re fired. I sure don’t miss those days.

Race Bannon

If you think you hear "whining crap" from the new bunch now, can you imagine what their perspective will be when things slow down and it goes back to historical norms? Then their complaint will be the same as now, "You sold us down the river".

"It was the best of times, it was the the worst of times", but the "aggrieved party" will chant the same mantra. The only difference is, the "new bunch" of today will be the "old heads"(5 years on property) of the future.

PS. Recently, it's been like warp speed . Pilots with 5 years at UAL(almost half of that Covid era) consider themselves "old heads" due to insane hiring(they are currently at 60%). Typically that took about half a career(15ish years). Percentage on seniority list is not synonymous with experience, wisdom, and "living the life". One minute in the ring with Mike Tyson typically isn't synonymous with 15 rounds of getting pummeled. BTW, I hope nobody gets "pummeled". The relative new hires have collected their guaranteed purse, I hope they don't have to step into the ring to learn 15 rounds of lessons the painful way.

hummingbear

Newer than some, older than many. I’m not sure how you calculated my time in the industry but I’ve never claimed to be anything other than a jack@$$ on the internet with a bunch of opinions. You are clearly a true expert, or you would not have been able to so quickly determine how stupid I am. I yield to your superior credentials, sir.

hummingbear

Thank you, zen master for the lessons in tranquility, but this is the period for discourse, & one need not be “obsessed” to engage in an active debate on the merits of the TA. I suppose I could criticize everyone promoting it by saying, “you know it’s gonna pass so just be quiet & let it happen”; but I’m in favor of a robust dialogue. When the voting concludes, it will be time to move forward- so let’s keep the horse & cart in that order.

& I didn’t say the status quo for pilot staffing would never change (though that’s an imaginative extreme to take it to) or that no one will ever get a base transfer again. I was specifically addressing the straw man comment that this whole thing was about preserving QOL for new hires, & simply pointing out how it affects other seniority ranges as well. I guess I don’t see why that is so incendiary to some here.

AbjectFutility

Them carry on. I hope you achieve everything you're hoping for.

Andy

You will have total consciousness on your deathbed. So you have that going for you.

Karloffstall

Judging by the amount of very new first officers (just off probation) taking the upgrades on the bid award today, the likelihood of anyone ever being “forced” into an upgrade is slim. A lot of these guys and girls seem to be chewing at the bit to go to the left seat. Plus the regional captains will probably trip over themselves to get straight into the left seat out of the gate. No one will be forced, a lot of hysteria over something that won’t happen

TheMitigator

Again, you are both completely missing the point. I guess I am not skilled enough in communicating to get you to understand that this isn't about comparing how hard the olden days were to today. I am fully aware of how long transfers/upgrades used to take. Enjoy your big fat signing bonus and the ignorance of not being able to comprehend what you gave up for it.

Sunvox

Bravo! I applaud your internet manners and love your willingness to continue to engage those who disagree with you but find a need to go personal rather than stick to the issue. Bravo!!

Sadly, not so true here Also, just because someone looks at an issue and sees it from a different view point does not make their view ignorant. It makes them opposed to your view.