clearskys

thanks to all for your responses, I’m still divided but leaning more to staying. The only thing I’m thinking about now is if age 67 happens. ( I would go nuts another 2 years stagnant) So let me ask the question … would you switch if age 67 happened?

ReadOnly7

I would switch regardless.

flyguy81

SWA doesn't have many retirements for another few years so age 67 won't hurt as bad. Legacies....it'll be a disaster. No telling how many will decide to work to the limit, and unless ICAO changes to 67...they're going to have to force old guys to the NB because of int'l age rules. That'll create a lot of extra training events when training centers are absolutely full right now with new hires, upgrades and recurrent training. Plus side is forcing old guys out of the WB against their seniority creates room for WB upgrades which typically go really really senior. As long as we don't hit another 2009 type recession, growth and what retirements do happen should mitigate any number of people choosing to stay so furloughs and stagnation shouldn't really happen.

ThumbsUp

There’s no plus there. It would be at best status quo and at worst (if ICAO follows suit) another two years in that seat. They would have been gone with 65.

flyguy81

I'd imagine that all the unfilled CA spots are on the NB at UAL, DL, AA. You can't fly int'l past 65 as of now and there's no movement I've seen from ICAO to change that. So airlines would get "some" NB CA spots filled by old dudes who don't know how to give it up and the WB spots would be filled by younger guys who wouldn't have been able to hold it. Bad for the seniority system....but you can't have your cake and eat it too...

ThumbsUp

There is no plus side. It’s all negative from a the seniority perspective of someone who isn’t 65. There is no way to shine it. If you are 65 today you leave the airline. If you are in a wide body you leave that seat. In x many months ifage 67 passes, you leave that seat. That is status quo. If ICAO passes age 67, you don’t leave the seat. That is negative. There is no plus side (repeating your quote).

RJSAviator76

I went through the similar exercise after our Christmas meltdown... I couldn't justify leaving:

1) Even though I live in a UAL base and would likely make CA right at the end of probation, at the time, I was only months from upgrade at Southwest and the pay differential was just too big and would take years to overcome at United simply because currently living in base, I can play an array of games to maximize my paycheck. I proved that concept after our MAX grounding and during COVID.

2) Having upgraded to CA now at Southwest, the math simply doesn't work whichever way you slice it. With our work rules and how our reserve pays, you'll make substantially more than min guarantee simply because how our reserve rules are structured. My first full month on reserve as a CA, I haven't picked up anything and ended up crediting over 140 TFP. Now, I realize that's an outlier, but 110-120 TFP on reserve isn't. That translates to a substantial premium over what our United counterpart makes. Think of it from the perspective of your 401k, your B-plan, etc. You will also forfeit your retro here by leaving. Could be worth a substantial chunk of change.

3) The time to leave for United was immediately post-COVID. They've hired an insane number of youngins since then. Here's the website so you can do your own math: https://www.fapa.aero/pilot-hiring-history. That's an awful lot of pilots hired ahead of you, and if you're that close to upgrade, you're leaving the cushion of almost half the seniority list below you to start over on the bottom with the economy doing a tightrope over the abyss.

Basically, when I did all the math, the numbers simply didn't make any sense to leave... and I'm younger than you.

flyguy81

Depends how you look at it I suppose. Unfilled CA seats aren’t suddenly going to be bid on just because FO’s have a change of heart.

You can’t fly a 777 int’l over 65 yrs old. Do you think a current 777 CA is going to be happy flying 2-3 legs a day on a 320 just so he can keep flying? Pretty sure I’d just retire at that point or medical out and collect disability to bridge to SS.

Either way…a WB spot will open for someone under 65.

John Carr

Our current reserve system SUCKS. It’s been said by many, but reserve at my regional was better than here.

And not so much in the spectrum of “should I stay or should it go”, but if I’m reading the language correctly, UAL reserve has the potential become A LOT more lucrative. Of course, the devils in the details.

I made this point previously.

But was contradicted by one of the resident old/crabby/grumpy posters.

But yep, I wouldn’t leave that seniority for what’s basically a “street CA”, at the bottom of a ~17k pilot list.

Jersey

Reality is res sys hasent changed in this contract and probably wont after aug 24.
We already have pure short call and long call lines in the current contract.