View Poll Results: T/A Vote Yes or No
Voters: 277. You may not vote on this poll
TA Poll
09-04-2023, 09:24 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 142
Raise NBCA pay by $25/hr, cut WBFO pay by $15/hr. That should be about cost neutral.
No argument from me. I've been here for more than 20 years and this is the best non-pay improvements I've seen in a contract.
I think that the best way to handle this is through liberal use of PP. For those that want to work, plenty of additional money. For those that want to fly less, the schedules are built more reasonably.
I used to pick up a decent amount of PP. I'm not going to pick up extra flying at straight pay. The company needs to figure out that one size doesn't fit all and use more PP for those that are willing to work additional hours.
No argument from me. I've been here for more than 20 years and this is the best non-pay improvements I've seen in a contract.
I think that the best way to handle this is through liberal use of PP. For those that want to work, plenty of additional money. For those that want to fly less, the schedules are built more reasonably.
I used to pick up a decent amount of PP. I'm not going to pick up extra flying at straight pay. The company needs to figure out that one size doesn't fit all and use more PP for those that are willing to work additional hours.
09-04-2023, 09:51 AM
#53
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
No waivers No favors kinda loses its edge when you vote yes to a contract with concessions.
I’m voting NO, give me the money but no sick pay cap, no B scale for NH QOL. The fact that we are presented this BS in this negotiating environment is a joke.
09-04-2023, 10:10 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,695
I’m voting Yes… this could have been accomplished in this TA by increasing FO pay a smaller percentage than the Captains pay…
09-04-2023, 10:19 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 196
you keep using this word b-scale.. but I do not think it means what you think it means.
09-04-2023, 10:35 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 495
09-04-2023, 10:45 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,958
09-04-2023, 10:55 AM
#58
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
Pilots on property were not forced into Captain positions, if ratified, New Hires would be forced into Captain positions. It’s the same concept as a B scale. Perhaps we should take out the word scale? A rules / B rules? Doesn’t roll off the tongue 🧐
09-04-2023, 11:19 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,351
If the company needs captains, they’ll pay for them. Unless, of course, we give them up for free.
09-04-2023, 12:25 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 806
And yeah, it's easy for us to sit here (as we should) in our me me me chairs on our me me me keyboards and deconstruct what our union claims is "an industry leading TA", nevertheless no TA will be 100% perfect, and if it was perfect, it wouldn't be called a "negotiation" - instead it'd be called a list of one sided demands followed by a "take it or leave it". One man's treasure is another man's trash and vice versa.
This TA despite its language being out still leaves a lot of room for interpretation, which I hope the road shows will help in filling that gap. Reading threads in other United pilot forums, one constant I've noticed is how erroneous some of us have interpreted the language, until a member of the FACT team steps in and corrects him or her.
Just a quick final note about "forced upgrades". We have already established this won't be implemented until the Fall of '24 and that by then, there may be no need for any "forced" upgrades. The definition of "forced" is imposing this on someone who vehemently and aggressively does not want it, either because he/she does not feel ready or because they feel they never want to be a CA.
100% of the people applying to United (pilots still have the freedom of going to Delta or AA if they don't want to risk getting "forced to upgrade") in the Fall of '24 will be FULLY aware and accepting of the fact they may get "forced" and if that is an issue for them, they will simply not apply here. I think that is the bigger smoking gun that the company may have to deal with if they see a decrease in applications due to the forced upgrade clause, which I still believe will account for an extremely small % of the upgrades.
Since United started hiring 2000+ pilots a year in late 2021, time needed to pass for some of the new hires to get to either the 1000 hours of SIC or 500 hours of company metal time while still trying to bid for their favorite base close to home - and the eligibility for a majority of those new hires to upgrade just began in the past 3-9 months, all while we were waiting for an AIP and a TA. This may now change the entire dynamic of things - especially when anyone upgrading will get either a paid move to the new base or 12 months of positive space commuting in order to deal with junior CA QOL issues.
You can look at things from the dark side all day long - but if you believe UPA23 is not industry leading, go ahead and vote NO, but make sure to start making noise with your reps - and they'll most likely explain and clarify things further.
I am voting YES and am looking forward to putting all this noise behind us.
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