LJ Driver

Great points, and very true. Problem is, our pilots that are whining about this would have to actually understand and be educated about wtf they are talking about, WHICH THEY WON’T.

FangsF15

I don't know UA's rules remotely well enough to compare with DL, but I can tell you this: whoever told you DL NB CA's get reassigned "more often than not" has no friggin clue what they are talking about. Absolute, grossly exaggerated nonsense. The closest it has ever come to resembling anything even remotely close to that was in the spring/summer of '22 when the flying public came roaring back, and pretty much every airline was caught flat footed on manning - everywhere was a ****show, But even then, it wasn't even close to 50% reassignments. But more importantly, that was very temporary and ended in the fall of 22. And especially now, with the new reroute rules fully in place with the new contract (where every single reassignment/reroute pays, 50% premium on the first FDP, and 100% premium on any/all subsequent FDP's), reassignments are now quite rare.

And OBTW, rolling days off has never been a thing at DL. Period. Not saying you can't ever get 'reassigned' into a day off, but hard limited to a single additional day, it's expensive for Mgmt, super rare (as in, the plane just broke and literally couldn't get you home), and you get that day off back, or put in a bank for use at your discretion over the next year (and can be used to easily get 8-13 hours additional of pay each).

Spartacusbob

Are you done being a petulant child because someone doesn’t agree with you?

Spartacusbob

Reassigned and rolled into days off are very different things, but I’ll let the DL person above, who explained this pretty clearly, and the inherent differences in QOL associated with such work rules, tell the actual story.

glassnpowder98

As someone who likes to make plans on my days off, reassignments are a pretty big sticking point with me in this TA. Contrary to your opinion, I have done all I can to educate myself about this TA.

20-I-6-a-(2)-(f) Assignment ladder 2 has all the steps scheduling “must” take in order to make it down the list to an unwilling reserve or lineholder to get reassigned into their day off. On paper it looks good- but how does a reserve “volunteer” for disruption, how long does the 50% PPU under 20-I-6-a-(2)-(b) “soak” in open time, how long does scheduling delay a flight so they can snag an unwilling reserve before they make it all the way down the list to an unwilling lineholder? Or do they just say, “well this lineholder can take over the flying without delaying the flight and all we have to do is pay him 5:15 for his day off!”

I filed a PDR with these questions and unfortunately my answer was disappointing. There was no negotiated language to enforce any of these rules and “the improved rules will only be as good as the ability to ensure that the pilot group will be able to ensure these requirements are met.” If this thing passes, which I’m sure it will, I hope everyone writes their reps to ensure this section is implemented in a way that favors the pilot group. This section has a lot of room to make pilots who want add pay for a day off a lot of money, while also protecting other pilots days off.

LJ Driver

You must have me confused with a different petulant child.

Common theme since this TA was released:
- Ignore all the things that will substantially improve QOL
- Focus on one or two hot button issues
-​​​​​ Peruse 5% of the TA
- Get upset that it isn’t precisely the language they wanted
- Spread rumors that aren’t true and talk about how crappy life will be under this TA
- Tell everyone how upset they are we are compromising so much
- Be corrected by people that actually know how to read
- Continue to whine about it and tell everyone they are voting NO
- Vote yes

I literally couldn’t care less if someone disagrees with me, but please be educated and know wtf you are talking about (and what the TA language states).

hummingbear

Interesting glimpse into the mind of some here that anyone who disagrees with them must necessarily be lying. There are definitely some good things in this TA. There are some mediocre things, and some outright bad. Within that framework are the elements of time & what we believe is possible.

We all have to balance that equation for ourselves & no one person’s math is absolute. Believe it or not, it is possible for someone to reach a different conclusion than you, and yes, even act on that conclusion.

LJ Driver

Mmm, k. Apparently you missed the entire last sentence…

“I literally couldn’t care less if someone disagrees with me, but please be educated and know wtf you are talking about (and what the TA language states).”

Again, if you don’t like something in the TA, great, join the club, it’s definitely not perfect. But please know the details of what it is that you don’t like. This statement honestly doesn’t even apply to you specifically as it’s clear that you have done serious diligence drilling down into the weeds on this TA. Many appear to haven’t done that at all, and drop grenades all over the place about things they don’t know or understand but want to wax poetic about all their perceived ails with it.

Spartacusbob

You responded to the post that sunvox responded to, mine. I read the TA, my comprehension may be different, my priorities sure are.

1. QOL better in this TA than last-somewhat
2. UAL, and I like it here, does not have the best work rules in the majors and by even some LCC’s, by a long margin, saying a thing is so, doesn’t make it so.
3. Too many people are posting ad hominem attacks, accusations of stupidity, incompetence, ‘virtue voting’, simply because their priorities and opinions don’t line up with others. I haven’t gone onto this thread and said, “old rich bastards, screwing the bottom half of seniority with crappy QOLso they can cash in their retro checks are just self seeking, selfish dbags, (“I got mine!”).” Their priorities and opinions don’t line up with mine but I respect their position.
4. This whole thread is designed for people to state their position and make their case. If it is just too much, don’t participate in this thread. (Im not after this post).
5. 1 or 2 hot button is the name of the game here if they are important to that person. I was asked, what I’d give up to get what I want. I could’ve said I’d give up retro. Cause let’s face it, it ain’t gonna be substantial for me (less than 10k to some of y’all’s 150k). But I realize that is an untenable and unfair statement to the whole. Some of us are built different.
6. There are, some very serious issues regarding the TA. Things that could destroy future leverage in negotiations, no the sky isn’t falling but some of us will be here longer to be affected by future negotiations in new contracts, it will necessarily matter more to us.
7. IANAL, are you? This contract is written by lawyers for lawyers, it’s dense and in that you must allow interpretations of language to differ. Then too, those people who KNOW, spout off things about other airlines that aren’t factual to provide comparisons.
8. Vote no.

Look man, if I was unfairly harsh, I apologize for my words. In the end, we are entitled to have our opinions, hot button issues, and vote the way we want to. State your position and make your case, answer questions about your position but no one should be vilified for their position.

ugleeual

Haven’t run into a NO vote yet on any of my trips or talking while in Ops… I’m giving this a 75-80 yes minimum.