Race Bannon

Well, Delta and AA have been hiring great guns like UA. Pay has always been fairly comparable between the three. The only carrier not filling NB captain positions is United. Something tells me pay is not the issue. It's QOL, specifically reserve. This is doubly true for commuters. When 50% of the workforce are commuters, the crappy work rules for commuters on reserve excises them out of the pool of available candidates. Let's face it, percentage- wise, we are only talking about a mere drop in the bucket of unfilled positions. BTW, about a year ago they had about 100 777 FO positions unfilled in SFO(also unheard of) Guess how they filled them? Yep, forced onto the NH's. Oh my, crap rolling downhill!

Having 150 unbid NB captain positions is almost meaningless as far as a percentage number. The reason it is an issue is because something like this hasn't ever happened before. You and I differ on what the problem is.

IOW, To me, t's not a pay issue, it's a QOL issue. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs told me money quits being a motivator after a certain point. Can somebody make me "an indecent proposal for my wife". YES absolutely, but the cost will be VERY steep. By my figuring it would be1.5Billion $$$$ left on the table. That is not even in the zone of reasonableness. That would set captain pay about 13-15% above our contemporaries. My opinion? That's not/was not happening.

To sum it up for me, if the NC fell short, it's that they didn't extract an achievable win(smaller but achievable QOL reserve improvements) to fix the "problem" which would have benefitted some of the pilots on the seniority list(20%). Instead, we wound up with a solution that potentially "harms" NH, but does nothing for any of the 16K + active pilots.

hummingbear

You seem to be having an argument with yourself about what you think I believe. I sometimes say “pay” as shorthand for bottom line investment through any number of channels. (From the company’s perspective, pay & QOL is all just $$$, so your extra HDO, for example, is “paying more”.) There’s a larger conversation to be had about what balance of the two is most effective & efficient, but other than the solicitation of your own wife, I don’t fundamentally disagree with your thoughts on the matter. The bottom line is that the company should be investing in upgrades, not forcing them.

Andy

The difference is that United has a much larger percentage of widebodies compared to the other two. Which means many more WBFO seats (higher percentage). The ratio of WBFO to NBCA is the reason why United has unfilled NBCA seats.

It's a problem. Not an easy one to fix. And it's not up to pilots to fix it; only to agree to the proposed solution.

Voski

The last vacancy to close, 2312V2, closed with 36 unfilled vacancies. While this is definitely an improvement toward filling captain positions from previous vacancies, we still have 6,000+ upgrade eligible FOs bypassing. Maybe some are holding out because of the training timeline over the holidays, maybe some are holding out to see if the contract is officially ratified after tomorrow. I know there are some that are holding out to see how implementation works out and the actual net effect on QOL thereafter. However, as long as hiring continues at its current pace and the airplane deliveries happen next year, I suspect Captain upgrades are going to continue to be a thorn in United's side. Vacancy 2312V2 indicates the imminent contract has not moved the needle enough to persuade FOs with any semblance of seniority to jump the trash bag.

CRJCapitan

Does United care? In a few months, United can start calling all the regional captains who've had apps on file and can't get a call.Then, they can dump all these vacancies in one class and everyone has to upgrade. Problem solved.

Voski

We'll find out how badly they care soon. They are beholden to implementing all of the work rule improvements before they can force that upon new hires. Unfortunately, I think you're right.

Brickfire

LIkely because the imminent contract doesn't imply imminent work-rule changes. Vacancy 24-08 is going to be the first real test and anyone who wants to see the new contract in action before committing will be looking at 25-XX bids.

TOGA Thrust

Maybe. Then they’ll have to get through the interview. Then they’ll have to get through new hire school/full course. Then they’ll have to make it through 350hrs in the seat. (With a whole host of Captains filling out probationary pilot evaluations) and then they’ll have to again make it through a full Capt course at TK. And then they’ll have to make it through 100 hours of OE with, at least, three different LCP’s and most likely the last being a QCL. All without stubbing their toe once.

I was a narrow body LCP/QCL and when necessary sent pilots back to TK for additional training (and sent a last chance pilot back to their previous aircraft). If I wouldn’t put my family in the back seat of an airplane commanded by a guy/gal - they would go back. We make a lot of jokes about our TK weenies, SC’s, and LCP’s, but make no mistake, they know their job and their responsibility.

PK387

Rest of your points are well taken, but I think you're overestimating how many CAs take the time to fill these out. I had a total of 3-4 during my entire probationary year.

Guppydriver95

The blame for that falls squarely at the feet of the company. In their zeal to be “green” (read-too cheap to print the form)they eliminated the paper form, thus adding to the hassle factor to fill these out for Captains. Before, the newbie would hand it to us, we fill it out on the last leg in cruise, hand it back to them and they dropped it off with the CPO. That’s why the response rate is so low.