350hr to upgrade

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08-13-2023, 02:09 PM

#31

744ButtonPusher

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TFAYD

lets see what the final language says but the way this could go down is no different than forcing new hires into WB slots.

40 new hires show up and the drop includes 30 FO slots and 10 CA slots. Yes the new hires who are forced into a CA slot will have to sit right seat and get the required hours but eventually they are moving to the left seat without ability to do anything due to initial seat lock.

the real question will be what initiates the lock, if you are not qualified to sit in the seat, how can you be locked in that seat. So wouldn’t they be Able to bid up to 756/777 if available to avoid getting the 350 hrs ?

08-13-2023, 05:46 PM

#32

Andy

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Position: guppy CA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickfire

Hire date isn’t a useful metric for several reasons

Mco captain plug is something like 50% system seniority. May lower depending on growth with TPA co-base

MCO CA plug on the Aug schedule is #11196, U371xxx. Much lower than 50% system seniority.
More than 10 pilots on the current vacancy bid have seniority numbers in the 11,000 range.
MCO CA is getting increasingly junior with every vacancy bid. This is due to some CAs bidding out of MCO along with expansion of the base.

08-13-2023, 08:42 PM

#33

TFAYD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedley

Considering how many inexperienced pilots we are hiring, I’d think that ALPA could quickly squash any attempt to force new hires into the left seat. Hiring pilots with thousands of hours jet PIC is no longer the norm. If a new hire with the experience to feel comfortable as a captain wants to bid it they can, but I don’t see people being forced. Even the bean counters could see the hazards of forcing inexperienced pilots into the left seat.

Sorry - this sounds a lot like a “the company would never do that” argument.

if it’s in the contract they will do it and I don’t see ALPA squashing anything

08-14-2023, 04:36 AM

#34

Hedley

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TFAYD

Sorry - this sounds a lot like a “the company would never do that” argument.

if it’s in the contract they will do it and I don’t see ALPA squashing anything

There’s a limit to what a company will do, even if allowed. Forcing a very young pilot with the bare minimum experience into the left seat would be a disaster waiting to happen from a cost and a PR perspective when something happens. They want to allow more people to be able to bid captain vacancies, but I just can’t see them forcing captains on new hires, especially considering how inexperienced some of them are these days.

08-14-2023, 04:50 AM

#35

KnightNight

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I think this won’t be a factor, once the new contract hits barring any crazy language /implentation schedule people will start bidding captain. Premium, LCP trip drops double dip etc are never a certainty to obtain nor to continue, people will take the guaranteed money when they hit the % they want seniority wise. I think for a lot of people that % isn’t as low as it was before.

08-14-2023, 05:15 AM

#36

Hedley

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KnightNight

I don’t think that money is the main motivator preventing people from upgrading. WBFO’s are more interested in days off and the one and done trips with a nice layover than being a NBCA (even as a solid mid seniority line holder). Working more days and much harder as an NBCA isn’t going to be appealing, even at the new rates. NBFO’s are concerned with relative seniority and control of their schedules, vacation bidding, etc., and they won’t want to give that up. All seats pay pretty well these days and the new generation places a much higher emphasis on QOL and time at home than they do on money. Some will upgrade due to the new pay scales/work rules, but I think the United Next growth plans are overly optimistic considering how people bid today. Time will tell.

08-14-2023, 06:10 AM

#37

CQKSNT

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedley

Everyone has an opinion about how much experience is needed to be a captain; the only opinion that matters is the FAA’s. The FAA does not allow “inexperienced” pilots to be captains. If you are FAA qualified to be a captain, you are by definition an experienced pilot. If these experienced pilots perform satisfactorily during captain training, the company nor ALPA will have any issues putting them straight into the left seat just because they are new to United.

This is the company’s perspective.