350hr to upgrade
08-12-2023, 06:27 PM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 424
LCP’s don’t freeze their schedule. That is done by the training department. According to the bullet point, OE scheduling could freeze 60% of a LCP’s schedule which would prevent line pilots from bidding those trips though. I’m guessing that it would also lock the LCP into those trips and they couldn’t trip trade for better trips.
08-12-2023, 07:22 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
from the bullet points:
LCP Override of 25% of 12 yr CA pay rate of highest paying aircraft in operation; attaches when trip becomes frozen (regardless if LCP duties are conducted) • Initially $106.49 per hour for entire trip Up to 60% of awarded flying days of an LCPs PBS schedule can be frozen immediately
will wait for final language of course, but I read this as- if you want the big override you freeze your schedule immediately. Since CA awards are generated first PBS will then prevent FOs from being awarded these trips during the PBS run, thereby eliminating the need to buy them off. Perhaps only “60%” of the schedule but still a large chunk given that most FOs bidding this way are, and will be well above $106.49/hr
LCP Override of 25% of 12 yr CA pay rate of highest paying aircraft in operation; attaches when trip becomes frozen (regardless if LCP duties are conducted) • Initially $106.49 per hour for entire trip Up to 60% of awarded flying days of an LCPs PBS schedule can be frozen immediately
will wait for final language of course, but I read this as- if you want the big override you freeze your schedule immediately. Since CA awards are generated first PBS will then prevent FOs from being awarded these trips during the PBS run, thereby eliminating the need to buy them off. Perhaps only “60%” of the schedule but still a large chunk given that most FOs bidding this way are, and will be well above $106.49/hr
It has nothing to do with the FO seat.
08-13-2023, 05:22 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
It also matters how it’s used. Our current language allows them to initially freeze trips and remove them from the pool of trips for FO’s to bid. My understanding is that the LCP’s got mad about having their trips frozen far in advance and then not being given a student. When trips are frozen weeks in advance they couldn’t improve their schedules through trip trading and students typically weren’t assigned until much closer to the start of the trip. The OE scheduling department then made an attempt to freeze their schedules once they actually knew that they’d be training someone. I don’t know how well that actually played out though.
08-13-2023, 06:26 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,860
It also matters how it’s used. Our current language allows them to initially freeze trips and remove them from the pool of trips for FO’s to bid. My understanding is that the LCP’s got mad about having their trips frozen far in advance and then not being given a student. When trips are frozen weeks in advance they couldn’t improve their schedules through trip trading and students typically weren’t assigned until much closer to the start of the trip. The OE scheduling department then made an attempt to freeze their schedules once they actually knew that they’d be training someone. I don’t know how well that actually played out though.
I believe the new contract attaches training pay to the pairing as soon as it’s frozen and made untradeable, the pay will stay if a student is not assigned.
08-13-2023, 06:42 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
“Freezing” a trio for FO bidding and “freezing” a trip on an LCA’s line are two different things. Just because it’s frozen to bid in PBS doesn’t mean the LCA can’t trade it….only after it’s frozen by the IOE desk does it become untradeable. They were freezing trips ahead of time (making them untradeable) and then not assigning a student…mainly for the narrow body fleets. That’s bull**** and guys were rightfully ****ed.
I believe the new contract attaches training pay to the pairing as soon as it’s frozen and made untradeable, the pay will stay if a student is not assigned.
I believe the new contract attaches training pay to the pairing as soon as it’s frozen and made untradeable, the pay will stay if a student is not assigned.
08-13-2023, 06:51 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
“Freezing” a trio for FO bidding and “freezing” a trip on an LCA’s line are two different things. Just because it’s frozen to bid in PBS doesn’t mean the LCA can’t trade it….only after it’s frozen by the IOE desk does it become untradeable. They were freezing trips ahead of time (making them untradeable) and then not assigning a student…mainly for the narrow body fleets. That’s bull**** and guys were rightfully ****ed.
I believe the new contract attaches training pay to the pairing as soon as it’s frozen and made untradeable, the pay will stay if a student is not assigned.
I believe the new contract attaches training pay to the pairing as soon as it’s frozen and made untradeable, the pay will stay if a student is not assigned.
08-13-2023, 08:08 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,085
What language are you reading that the company can force new hires into the Captain seat? The way I read the bullet point is that it is AVAILABLE to be bid to a NH prior to coming off probation if they so desire. Even if they bid it it’s still available to anyone else to bid prior to being activated. If a NH chooses to bid the seat what they need to accomplish is outlined. I’m not seeing the bridge yet to concluding that CA slots will be forced on new hires. Final language will clarify that obviously. I don’t think Captain seats will be offered in any class drop.
40 new hires show up and the drop includes 30 FO slots and 10 CA slots. Yes the new hires who are forced into a CA slot will have to sit right seat and get the required hours but eventually they are moving to the left seat without ability to do anything due to initial seat lock.
08-13-2023, 08:19 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
lets see what the final language says but the way this could go down is no different than forcing new hires into WB slots.
40 new hires show up and the drop includes 30 FO slots and 10 CA slots. Yes the new hires who are forced into a CA slot will have to sit right seat and get the required hours but eventually they are moving to the left seat without ability to do anything due to initial seat lock.
40 new hires show up and the drop includes 30 FO slots and 10 CA slots. Yes the new hires who are forced into a CA slot will have to sit right seat and get the required hours but eventually they are moving to the left seat without ability to do anything due to initial seat lock.
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