Maui 777
08-13-2023, 12:04 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,351
08-13-2023, 05:10 PM
#84
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 62
Yeah…unfortunately we don’t do that here. Many of these more “seasoned” captains prefer using the ear dicks and no intercom because “if it’s good enough for Mission Control at NASA then it’s good enough for us.” Honestly it’s a safety issue when you can’t converse with the person next to you.
08-13-2023, 05:15 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,954
I am 100% in favor of that. There seems to be some kind of institutional resistance to anything that could possibly encourage headset usage at the ALPA level for some reason.
08-14-2023, 03:29 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Glass cockpits have some features that are initially counter intuitive.
Speed limit indicators that come down and an altitude tape that comes down indicating a climb.
Asking for flaps 5 followed by an expectation bias (speed limit moving up) and a speed limit moving down (flaps 15) could lead to an impulsive reaction of pushing pitch down to stay out of the “red”.
At least it can’t be ruled out as a possibility.
Was the PF prior experience mostly on analog?
Was the PM somewhat passive?
Did they have a prior experience, as in a Captain that starts every conversation with “on the classic we….” vs a FO that hit every downturn in the industry (number of types?) that’s just there for the paycheck? No offense but it’s a human factors combination we cannot rule out.
Speed limit indicators that come down and an altitude tape that comes down indicating a climb.
Asking for flaps 5 followed by an expectation bias (speed limit moving up) and a speed limit moving down (flaps 15) could lead to an impulsive reaction of pushing pitch down to stay out of the “red”.
At least it can’t be ruled out as a possibility.
Was the PF prior experience mostly on analog?
Was the PM somewhat passive?
Did they have a prior experience, as in a Captain that starts every conversation with “on the classic we….” vs a FO that hit every downturn in the industry (number of types?) that’s just there for the paycheck? No offense but it’s a human factors combination we cannot rule out.
It doesn’t help that at least at my former airline they require probably no more than 5 minutes of hand flying on any given sim session. If the NTSB wanted to do something positive after this incident they would require far more hand flying in recurrent.
08-14-2023, 07:54 AM
#89
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Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: AOG
Posts: 793
People who refuse to use the intercom. That’s what’s wrong. Flying with a captain on a five hour transcon into SFO when they’re landing on the 19’s and he says “I’ve never landed on them in my 27 years here” and when you suggest using the intercom function because it’s such a different situation for you both he says “nah, just talk loud and we’ll get it done.”
08-14-2023, 08:06 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,954
It provides no hearing protection and results in both pilots yelling into each other’s most hearing damaged ear.
they’ve done studies, even in “quiet” aircraft like the Airbus pilots hearing in their open ear is generally worse than the one protected by the ear dic.
Every single communication related snafu I have had here has been with pilots using the ear dic. Every single one. I am not a soft talker either.
It needs to get added to the FSAP form and ALPA needs to start taking hearing loss/communication seriously.
they’ve done studies, even in “quiet” aircraft like the Airbus pilots hearing in their open ear is generally worse than the one protected by the ear dic.
Every single communication related snafu I have had here has been with pilots using the ear dic. Every single one. I am not a soft talker either.
It needs to get added to the FSAP form and ALPA needs to start taking hearing loss/communication seriously.
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