Maui 777
08-12-2023, 06:03 PM
#71
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,216
It would be strange for a 20000 hour pilot to make this kind of error. Granted, he had 500 or so hours on the tripple but this is a VERY experienced aviator. Maybe it is just as simple as you state but some of us don't see a man with this much stick time dropping the nose @30 degrees in a matter of seconds for a non alert configuration snafu.
Speed limit indicators that come down and an altitude tape that comes down indicating a climb.
Asking for flaps 5 followed by an expectation bias (speed limit moving up) and a speed limit moving down (flaps 15) could lead to an impulsive reaction of pushing pitch down to stay out of the “red”.
At least it can’t be ruled out as a possibility.
Was the PF prior experience mostly on analog?
Was the PM somewhat passive?
Did they have a prior experience, as in a Captain that starts every conversation with “on the classic we….” vs a FO that hit every downturn in the industry (number of types?) that’s just there for the paycheck? No offense but it’s a human factors combination we cannot rule out.
08-12-2023, 06:06 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,238
It would be strange for a 20000 hour pilot to make this kind of error. Granted, he had 500 or so hours on the tripple but this is a VERY experienced aviator. Maybe it is just as simple as you state but some of us don't see a man with this much stick time dropping the nose @30 degrees in a matter of seconds for a non alert configuration snafu.
Conversely, all my new FOs seem to have decent hand flying skills because they've come from RJs where they were hand flying a decent amount or the military where they were also doing lots of hand flying.
08-12-2023, 06:10 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,351
It would be strange for a 20000 hour pilot to make this kind of error. Granted, he had 500 or so hours on the tripple but this is a VERY experienced aviator. Maybe it is just as simple as you state but some of us don't see a man with this much stick time dropping the nose @30 degrees in a matter of seconds for a non alert configuration snafu.
We have a lot of systems & practices in place to minimize these risks (GPWS to the rescue on this one) sometimes to the point of complacency- but don’t ever let yourself believe you or the guy sitting next to you is too experienced to make a devastating mistake.
Last edited by hummingbear; 08-12-2023 at 06:37 PM.
08-12-2023, 07:25 PM
#74
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Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
It would be strange for a 20000 hour pilot to make this kind of error. Granted, he had 500 or so hours on the tripple but this is a VERY experienced aviator. Maybe it is just as simple as you state but some of us don't see a man with this much stick time dropping the nose @30 degrees in a matter of seconds for a non alert configuration snafu.
08-12-2023, 07:54 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2023
Posts: 341
Thats the base line.
But from a safety standpoint the question is why did a high time professional pilot allow themselves to fixate, lose SA and almost crash an airplane over a completely benign mis set flap handle. And that is far more complex answer than what you wrote above.
I see human factors, flying skill, instrument misinterpretation, improper response, CRM, and training issues to name a few. Simply stated that was a situation that any mildly accomplished professional pilot should be able to handle without the slightest amount of trouble.
Edited to add:
There’s not a single solitary one of you losers on here that are qualified to give me a “happy ending”.
But from a safety standpoint the question is why did a high time professional pilot allow themselves to fixate, lose SA and almost crash an airplane over a completely benign mis set flap handle. And that is far more complex answer than what you wrote above.
I see human factors, flying skill, instrument misinterpretation, improper response, CRM, and training issues to name a few. Simply stated that was a situation that any mildly accomplished professional pilot should be able to handle without the slightest amount of trouble.
Edited to add:
There’s not a single solitary one of you losers on here that are qualified to give me a “happy ending”.
08-13-2023, 06:03 AM
#78
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,725
08-13-2023, 09:44 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,752
I’m not sure why the hostility but at least help me understand the conspiracy angle. As I read it, the story is FP stops focusing on flying the plane during a power & configuration change in turbulent air under IMC & ends up in an unusual attitude. Why does that demand further information? Exactly what part of that doesn’t pass your sniff test?
Hoss is a big boy & is free to clarify his cryptic statement if he wants to. If not, there isn’t much point in you & I debating over what he may or may not have meant, wouldn’t you say?
Hoss is a big boy & is free to clarify his cryptic statement if he wants to. If not, there isn’t much point in you & I debating over what he may or may not have meant, wouldn’t you say?
I think you’re missing your virtue signaling in the other thread….
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