Maui 777
08-11-2023, 04:42 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,784
Tell me more about these "findings" of which you speak?
Juan give you access to his videos first?
Happy Friday.
08-11-2023, 04:54 PM
#52
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Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,964
What of the Captain's last-minute decision to opt for a MAX thrust takeoff in response to the LLWS advisories instead of the recommended reduced-thrust takeoff being the primary event that triggered the entire sequence? The Captain seemed very concerned about the potential flaps overspeed condition -- it was mentioned a couple of times. This concern likely prompted the Captain's manual intervention to reduce power and mitigate the risk of an overspeed.
08-11-2023, 05:49 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,361
Setting flaps 15 instead of 5 is a non starter. Flaps 15 and flaps 5 is the same minimum maneuvering speed on a 777. It’s an extremely common mistake for people to call for/ set 15 instead of 5 on a flaps 20 take off. It’s a complete non issue. There is more to the story, a lot more.
Not saying there couldn’t be more to the story, but the story as told makes sense to me. Doesn’t take long to get in a bad situation if no one is flying the plane.
08-11-2023, 05:59 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
People are making too much of the flap setting. Flaps merely provided the opportunity for distraction. Could’ve been anything- gear, firebell, EICAS message- once the PF started fixating on something other than flying the airplane, the rest of the story is unsurprising.
Not saying there couldn’t be more to the story, but the story as told makes sense to me. Doesn’t take long to get in a bad situation if no one is flying the plane.
Not saying there couldn’t be more to the story, but the story as told makes sense to me. Doesn’t take long to get in a bad situation if no one is flying the plane.
Yep……If you are going to hand fly then fly the airplane…..If you don’t trust the guy you are flying with then turn in the AP.
08-11-2023, 06:57 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,784
People are making too much of the flap setting. Flaps merely provided the opportunity for distraction. Could’ve been anything- gear, firebell, EICAS message- once the PF started fixating on something other than flying the airplane, the rest of the story is unsurprising.
Not saying there couldn’t be more to the story, but the story as told makes sense to me. Doesn’t take long to get in a bad situation if no one is flying the plane.
Not saying there couldn’t be more to the story, but the story as told makes sense to me. Doesn’t take long to get in a bad situation if no one is flying the plane.
08-11-2023, 08:13 PM
#56
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2023
Position: The list is long and distinguished
Posts: 2
Setting flaps 15 instead of 5 is a non starter. Flaps 15 and flaps 5 is the same minimum maneuvering speed on a 777. It’s an extremely common mistake for people to call for/ set 15 instead of 5 on a flaps 20 take off. It’s a complete non issue. There is more to the story, a lot more.
There is more to the story, a lot more
08-11-2023, 08:50 PM
#57
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 54
Flaps had nothing to do with this incident other than pilot distraction. Flaps 15 through 1 were selected as the aircraft continued to climb. If the FO misheard the CPT and selected flaps 15 rather than flaps 5 would not cause the a/c to enter a nosedive. The airspeed bug would show the appropriate speed to fly versus the flap setting. Curious as to why the CPT would decrease pitch attitude if he was worried about flap speed. How many times have you taken off and your overly eager FO is on the radio talking to departure and you have to keep your nose up so you can retract your flaps on schedule? Good grief.
Last edited by phrogpi; 08-11-2023 at 09:16 PM.
08-11-2023, 09:24 PM
#58
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 845
People are often antagonized by occam's razor explanations. It's a form of coping to bias towards esoteric theories; brings about a degree of exculpation that admitting an ATP rated pilot boned up instrument cross check/SA during handflying does not afford by comparison.
I still contend US 121 is the pinnacle of industry safety (lord knows the ish we do over here on DoD land is not particularly safe, even in training/garrison by comparison, and we have the hull losses to show for it). These close calls are reminders of what the US pax crowd takes for granted. This crew got lucky, the end game aural alert saved them, period. The industry was spared as well by proxy.
Flap potato is a red herring.
I still contend US 121 is the pinnacle of industry safety (lord knows the ish we do over here on DoD land is not particularly safe, even in training/garrison by comparison, and we have the hull losses to show for it). These close calls are reminders of what the US pax crowd takes for granted. This crew got lucky, the end game aural alert saved them, period. The industry was spared as well by proxy.
Flap potato is a red herring.
08-12-2023, 04:24 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,361
I’m nobody & hoss may well be privy to information I’m not. I’m just saying the account as told (distraction & fixation in IMC leads to unusual attitude) does make simple sense.
08-12-2023, 04:29 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,361
Once again, if you read the captain’s account, he does not claim to have intentionally lowered the nose. That’s a detail people are making up. His story is about fixating on speed & flap settings until he realizes the aircraft is in a dangerous attitude.
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