767 Hard Landing IAH ???
08-09-2023, 09:11 AM
#281
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Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 513
It is plausible. Boeing philosophy and design for spoiler deployment. The spoilers only need main gear (both) untilt and idle throttles. If the aircraft bounces the spoilers can be deployed if done automatically or manually. Startle effect must have been pretty apparent for her to do something like she did. In the string of events that are causal this one was near the middle. This could have been easily recoverably if handled properly unfortunately the unloading of the wing was the death nail. This is a cardinal rule and should never be done. If she was worried about the tail she should have held the pitch and gone around.
08-09-2023, 09:44 AM
#282
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Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,891
In the incident report the crew reported that they had briefed the deferral and were aware of its effect on the flight. Maybe someone here can address the MEL but I am sure it addresses the pitch up tendencies when manually deployed too rapidly. Most swept wing airplanes do this. Unloading the wing on a bounce has got to be one of the most curious things she could have commanded in that moment unless she was so unaware that they had bounced.
08-09-2023, 09:46 AM
#283
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08-09-2023, 12:02 PM
#284
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Guppy CA
Posts: 182
Tilt (more accurately un-tilt, I suppose)
Wheel spin-up
IRS (must sense less than 1 or 1.5 degrees pitch I think)
Thrust reverser deployment
Now if I could only remember my current plane as well as the one I used to fly....
08-09-2023, 12:32 PM
#285
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
This dates me but at my airline until about 93 spoilers were not required to be armed unless the runway was less than 8000 feet. Both the 757 and 767 landed beautifully with the spoilers disarmed and no auto brakes. You could roll the aircraft on like no other aircraft I flew. Spoilers came up when reverse was selected. When auto speedbrakes became mandatory you could no longer get that are we on the ground touchdown.
08-09-2023, 05:45 PM
#289
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Joined APC: Mar 2023
Posts: 126
I remember being taught TWIT for spoiler deployment on the 756:
Tilt (more accurately un-tilt, I suppose)
Wheel spin-up
IRS (must sense less than 1 or 1.5 degrees pitch I think)
Thrust reverser deployment
Now if I could only remember my current plane as well as the one I used to fly....
Tilt (more accurately un-tilt, I suppose)
Wheel spin-up
IRS (must sense less than 1 or 1.5 degrees pitch I think)
Thrust reverser deployment
Now if I could only remember my current plane as well as the one I used to fly....
08-09-2023, 06:20 PM
#290
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,754
When the auto speed brakes are deferred and you have to manually extend them, I teach new pilots to extend them slowly as in “ One potato, 2 Potato, 3 Potato, Four”. So it should take about 4 seconds to smoothly extend the speed brakes. If you extend them quickly you will get a very pronounced pitch up that will be faster and a higher rate than the normal slight pitch up that the Auto speed brakes exhibit. If you slam them out, you’re in for a wild ride!
I had the 757 training manager throw gear for me once do that and on taxi-in he apologized and said, "I wasn't supposed to do that was I?"
You'd think he'd known better since he was in charge of training, but it happens.
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