767 Hard Landing IAH ???
08-06-2023, 04:47 AM
#211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
You are reaching with the diversity stuff. The experience level with pilots have dropped across the board in the industry. That goes for White, Black, Males, Females LBTQ, or Straight pilots.
When you are looking at past hiring, you have to take look at the hiring environment across the industry as a whole.
1997 to 2005, there wasn’t a shortage of experience pilots in the hiring pool to draw from…
2006 to 2016 was the lost decade…. Lots of experienced pilots in the pool to draw from….
Post Covid, you have a pool of experienced pilots have started to dry up. Airlines have to cover their retirements and early outs from a pool that has shrunk considerably. Theres a vacuum of then empty pilot pipeline that emptied out during the lost decade. That pipeline has started to fill back up. The military pilot pool also has shrunk vs what it used to be prior and during the lost decade….
When you are looking at past hiring, you have to take look at the hiring environment across the industry as a whole.
1997 to 2005, there wasn’t a shortage of experience pilots in the hiring pool to draw from…
2006 to 2016 was the lost decade…. Lots of experienced pilots in the pool to draw from….
Post Covid, you have a pool of experienced pilots have started to dry up. Airlines have to cover their retirements and early outs from a pool that has shrunk considerably. Theres a vacuum of then empty pilot pipeline that emptied out during the lost decade. That pipeline has started to fill back up. The military pilot pool also has shrunk vs what it used to be prior and during the lost decade….
08-06-2023, 05:53 AM
#212
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Joined APC: Feb 2016
Position: 737
Posts: 316
Former UAL Captain Laura Savino has a YouTube channel now focusing on safety. She confirms that the 767 F/O was a former male F/A who was hired at UAL and was flying the jet. And that they had major problems in training. She believes that they have been fired but it didn't sound like she was 100% on that. In this video she covers this hard landing, the Delta flight into hail in Italy, and the Delta 757 wheel fire/evac in ATL:
https://youtu.be/Az1MHz3QSXM
https://youtu.be/Az1MHz3QSXM
08-06-2023, 06:34 AM
#213
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Position: Upside Down
Posts: 77
I think many of you are putting too much emphasis on the experience part of the equation. What has changed is many pilots now getting hired at the majors would never have been hired in the past regardless of how much experience they had. It comes down to the underlying quality of the individual to begin with. One of the reasons Ab-intro programs have worked is they get very high quality people in the front door. Competition for those slots is intense. Never in the past would you see pilots flunking out of a regional training program make it to the majors. More than 1 checkride failure would make getting hired harder. 2 failures and you would need to show a perfect training record going forward. 3 was the kiss of death. Now you have pilots with multiple failures and unable to complete a 121 training program get to the majors.
The airlines are literally hiring anyone they can (training records be damned).
I’ve also spoken to many pilots in the hiring department and they’ve confirmed that “everyone deserves a chance”. And, “United Training will make them all great”. Or, my favorite, “they all have such good attitudes”.
Bottom line, the person sitting next to you is most likely not the new hire of old.
08-06-2023, 07:32 AM
#214
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Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 222
They didn’t just have major proficiency issues in the United schoolhouse. She’s claiming he was terminated for performance issues from a separate employer with an ugly training record before being hired at United. That’s a remarkable record to look past. Freshly terminated for their flying skills and they’re hired on at United Airlines. What is this place becoming? Mainline Mesa?
The United hiring department strikes again! They’ve really outdone themselves this time if any of what she quoted is accurate. What an absolute disgrace. I suppose these zero to hero, low time, zero T-PIC, no college degree with a few check ride busts for good measure kids are not considered the lowest your hiring department will stoop.
The United hiring department strikes again! They’ve really outdone themselves this time if any of what she quoted is accurate. What an absolute disgrace. I suppose these zero to hero, low time, zero T-PIC, no college degree with a few check ride busts for good measure kids are not considered the lowest your hiring department will stoop.
and how exactly did she gain that information?
I’m not defending the lower hiring standards, but she seems like a piece of trash.
08-06-2023, 07:40 AM
#215
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Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
The training department will have spend more time with new hires before signing them off in a market where you can’t be very selective. If the new hire sitting next to you isn’t up to speed, just have them removed from the trip and send them back to the training department. New to United or 121 flying is where mentoring comes into play. If a pilot is consistently behind the airplane, or not up to the standard on our SOP’s, send them back to TK. For what it’s worth, I haven’t experienced a new hire that I felt needed additional training. I wouldn’t let a few land in SNA or in marginal weather, but otherwise they have all done fine.
08-06-2023, 09:09 AM
#216
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Posts: 19,599
08-06-2023, 05:52 PM
#219
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 99
Don’t forget the 777 out of Hawaii that almost ended up in the drink last December.
That is true....However, some airlines will go out of their way to pull in more of these candidates to increase their net "coolness score." Or, other some dumbness metrics. When you go out of your way to increase the number of marginally qualified pilots you place a very high burden on your training and safety management systems. So...so much responsibility of the LCA's. The corporation makes decisions that your LCA's have to deal with at the end of the day. Personally, if I ran an airline, I would make zero mention of "diversity initiatives." And simply hire the best candidates I could find. The best candidates I could find would, at the end of the training program decrease the burden on my LCA's and increase the safety of the operation. If Safety is number one, then everything else is secondary. Scenario: Applicant A: 2500 hours, 1000 jet, non DIE candidate. Applicant B: 1500 hours, zero turbine, non DIE candidate....which one do I hire? Which one places a lower burden on my training program and my LCA's? That's how it was done in the past. Today....HR is in there doing their thing and they are pushing their DIE program. Heck, the DIE program is HR and HR is the DIE program. Flight Operations at UA is not superior to the other departments, but a lateral peer. Flight Operations is in a "missile silo" set alone in their own little world and they are bossed about by a former HR manager. It may be smart to tap the brakes and get some safety management system consultants in there and evaluate the operation. As I recall this is their third bent airframe in 4 years. 2 757's and 1 767. This is naturally excluding the recent mechanical at IAD. The situation was caused by the FO, but the CA will own the outcome.
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