SKs Comments About Lack of Upgrades
07-21-2023, 05:09 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
07-21-2023, 06:00 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 45
The AIP may help a little bit as far as attracting more upgrades but I don’t think it’s gonna help as much as SK thinks it will. Don’t get me wrong, It is a step in the right direction but industry-leading it is not.
07-21-2023, 06:55 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,085
Then you have worked under some sh!tty contracts. I’ve worked at a regional that had better reserve work rules. United’s current reserve rules are the crappiest I’ve worked under in the 5 airlines (including mergers) in the 15 yrs I’ve worked and is the reason I will not upgrade even with the new AIP knowing I’ll be on reserve for the next 3-5 years.
The AIP may help a little bit as far as attracting more upgrades but I don’t think it’s gonna help as much as SK thinks it will. Don’t get me wrong, It is a step in the right direction but industry-leading it is not.
The AIP may help a little bit as far as attracting more upgrades but I don’t think it’s gonna help as much as SK thinks it will. Don’t get me wrong, It is a step in the right direction but industry-leading it is not.
the proof is in the pudding. I doubt it will solve the upgrade problem. But it now opens up the path of forcing new hires into CA seats.
nit sure that this is a good plan….
07-21-2023, 07:07 AM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2023
Posts: 28
When I worked at the pentagon, new one-star generals would show up and implement their GOBIs (general officer bright ideas). Fortunately, as most were dumb, they’d stop trying to make them work.
A little over a year ago, Carlson left, and SK brought in (I think) a former AA guy to run crew manning. He immediately ended PPU, raised the g lines, put more people on reserve, and drove the current reassignment GOBI to keep things running. And now no one wants to be a CA. Hmmmm…coincidence?
If SK wants to fix this, he needs to reevaluate this hire…in my humble opinion.
A little over a year ago, Carlson left, and SK brought in (I think) a former AA guy to run crew manning. He immediately ended PPU, raised the g lines, put more people on reserve, and drove the current reassignment GOBI to keep things running. And now no one wants to be a CA. Hmmmm…coincidence?
If SK wants to fix this, he needs to reevaluate this hire…in my humble opinion.
07-21-2023, 07:24 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 756 left
Posts: 766
When I worked at the pentagon, new one-star generals would show up and implement their GOBIs (general officer bright ideas). Fortunately, as most were dumb, they’d stop trying to make them work.
A little over a year ago, Carlson left, and SK brought in (I think) a former AA guy to run crew manning. He immediately ended PPU, raised the g lines, put more people on reserve, and drove the current reassignment GOBI to keep things running. And now no one wants to be a CA. Hmmmm…coincidence?
If SK wants to fix this, he needs to reevaluate this hire…in my humble opinion.
A little over a year ago, Carlson left, and SK brought in (I think) a former AA guy to run crew manning. He immediately ended PPU, raised the g lines, put more people on reserve, and drove the current reassignment GOBI to keep things running. And now no one wants to be a CA. Hmmmm…coincidence?
If SK wants to fix this, he needs to reevaluate this hire…in my humble opinion.
He won't have to replace Zach. He won't have to fix the g-lines, PPU, nor the number of reserves. The ability to force new hires into these unfilled CA positions is his ultimate fix.
07-21-2023, 09:16 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
When I worked at the pentagon, new one-star generals would show up and implement their GOBIs (general officer bright ideas). Fortunately, as most were dumb, they’d stop trying to make them work.
A little over a year ago, Carlson left, and SK brought in (I think) a former AA guy to run crew manning. He immediately ended PPU, raised the g lines, put more people on reserve, and drove the current reassignment GOBI to keep things running. And now no one wants to be a CA. Hmmmm…coincidence?
If SK wants to fix this, he needs to reevaluate this hire…in my humble opinion.
A little over a year ago, Carlson left, and SK brought in (I think) a former AA guy to run crew manning. He immediately ended PPU, raised the g lines, put more people on reserve, and drove the current reassignment GOBI to keep things running. And now no one wants to be a CA. Hmmmm…coincidence?
If SK wants to fix this, he needs to reevaluate this hire…in my humble opinion.
PPU is going to be needed for quite a while, at least on the NB CA side.
1) It will pull forward the one year CA wonders (quite a bit different than our 18+ yr wait to get an opportunity for the left seat)
2) It may push some candidates to other airlines if they don't want to sit reserve for several years after a forced upgrade.
3) Those that get forced into the left may end up moving back to the right seat and take the deep freeze in order to stay off reserve.
For this to work, they need to make reserve significantly more palatable to those who they're forcing onto reserve for years.
07-21-2023, 09:18 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Then you have worked under some sh!tty contracts. I’ve worked at a regional that had better reserve work rules. United’s current reserve rules are the crappiest I’ve worked under in the 5 airlines (including mergers) in the 15 yrs I’ve worked and is the reason I will not upgrade even with the new AIP knowing I’ll be on reserve for the next 3-5 years.
The AIP may help a little bit as far as attracting more upgrades but I don’t think it’s gonna help as much as SK thinks it will. Don’t get me wrong, It is a step in the right direction but industry-leading it is not.
The AIP may help a little bit as far as attracting more upgrades but I don’t think it’s gonna help as much as SK thinks it will. Don’t get me wrong, It is a step in the right direction but industry-leading it is not.
If one examines a company with different rules that allow easier reassignments of line holders one can gain the impression that UAL's reserve system is inferior to that of other companies. I do not think that is true.
In short UAL's contract places great emphasis on lineholders NOT being reassigned, but rather using reserves to cover short term scheduling problems. UAL reserves also can not pick up premium pay trips. This too is an example of how UAL puts lineholders above reserves. Does that mean UAL reserve rules are "worse". One can definitely argue yes they are worse, but one can just as easily say no they are simply different.
This from a UAL pilot married to a Delta pilot:
I have a good buddy at Delta as well, (Wife 2010 hire).
"Rolling Thunder" is pretty rare, you need to build the perfect storm. To be successful you need to, be senior to bid off the beginning of the month, be on a narrow body, live in base, and/or be in a short staffed commuter base. It happens and they do have more opportunity to get RSV PPU (Green slips), but I would argue that the true "Rolling Thunder" is kinda hyped up a bit. Also Green slips are not 100% seniority If you are senior and get one, and I am JR. I get the next, senior pilots at UAL would have blood shooting out of their eyes if they had to share!
They do not have FSB, but as a line holder my wife (737 domestic) almost NEVER flies the trip her seniority holds (Tumi TA like), instead she is "re-routed" the next contract will pay more for this which will be a plus but that does not go in affect until AUG 2023.
"Rolling Thunder" is pretty rare, you need to build the perfect storm. To be successful you need to, be senior to bid off the beginning of the month, be on a narrow body, live in base, and/or be in a short staffed commuter base. It happens and they do have more opportunity to get RSV PPU (Green slips), but I would argue that the true "Rolling Thunder" is kinda hyped up a bit. Also Green slips are not 100% seniority If you are senior and get one, and I am JR. I get the next, senior pilots at UAL would have blood shooting out of their eyes if they had to share!
They do not have FSB, but as a line holder my wife (737 domestic) almost NEVER flies the trip her seniority holds (Tumi TA like), instead she is "re-routed" the next contract will pay more for this which will be a plus but that does not go in affect until AUG 2023.
Summary
Delta and AA do not restore lineholder days off lost in a reassignment. This explains why AA and DL have emphasized that their reassignment rules are resulting in pilot fatigue. Under the UPA, United pilots get our days restored for RAs (787/777 first day only is not restored), they do not.
Delta and AA also have no operational minimum day off requirement for LHs, so no MDO restoration is ever required for RAs or even delays. The UPA requires a minimum of 12 days off, and pilots can waive down to 10.
In general, Delta allows reassignments to occur more often than we do but has stricter limits on how late a pilot must be scheduled to return home. That difference reflects different decisions at the two airlines; Delta book favors more frequent reassignments that get them home closer to the original ETA, while UAL book favors less frequent reassignments that can get home later. The UPA restores the lost days off while Delta does not.
Delta has add pay for reassignments that is similar to ours, but notably does not pay if the reassignment is caused by weather. DL ALPA is trying to eliminate that exception in their negotiations.
In general, American's RA restrictions and pay are inferior to ours, which is why the AA pilots have made improving them such a high priority.
Delta and AA do not restore lineholder days off lost in a reassignment. This explains why AA and DL have emphasized that their reassignment rules are resulting in pilot fatigue. Under the UPA, United pilots get our days restored for RAs (787/777 first day only is not restored), they do not.
Delta and AA also have no operational minimum day off requirement for LHs, so no MDO restoration is ever required for RAs or even delays. The UPA requires a minimum of 12 days off, and pilots can waive down to 10.
In general, Delta allows reassignments to occur more often than we do but has stricter limits on how late a pilot must be scheduled to return home. That difference reflects different decisions at the two airlines; Delta book favors more frequent reassignments that get them home closer to the original ETA, while UAL book favors less frequent reassignments that can get home later. The UPA restores the lost days off while Delta does not.
Delta has add pay for reassignments that is similar to ours, but notably does not pay if the reassignment is caused by weather. DL ALPA is trying to eliminate that exception in their negotiations.
In general, American's RA restrictions and pay are inferior to ours, which is why the AA pilots have made improving them such a high priority.
07-21-2023, 09:24 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
Don't answer the phone? Great, the screw desk has in the past changed my pairing before the original assignment had a flight plan. Pretty much locks you into the new pairing.
07-21-2023, 09:27 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 756 left
Posts: 766
This post needs a like button.
PPU is going to be needed for quite a while, at least on the NB CA side.
Pistons, old friend. I disagree. I don't see this as a workable solution.
1) It will pull forward the one year CA wonders (quite a bit different than our 18+ yr wait to get an opportunity for the left seat)
2) It may push some candidates to other airlines if they don't want to sit reserve for several years after a forced upgrade.
3) Those that get forced into the left may end up moving back to the right seat and take the deep freeze in order to stay off reserve.
For this to work, they need to make reserve significantly more palatable to those who they're forcing onto reserve for years.
PPU is going to be needed for quite a while, at least on the NB CA side.
Pistons, old friend. I disagree. I don't see this as a workable solution.
1) It will pull forward the one year CA wonders (quite a bit different than our 18+ yr wait to get an opportunity for the left seat)
2) It may push some candidates to other airlines if they don't want to sit reserve for several years after a forced upgrade.
3) Those that get forced into the left may end up moving back to the right seat and take the deep freeze in order to stay off reserve.
For this to work, they need to make reserve significantly more palatable to those who they're forcing onto reserve for years.
Andy, hey. How ya been? For number 3, I've heard rumors that the freezes will be different for those that are forced. And several other things that will be different with how those pilots are dealt with. They won't be able to bid back to the right seat after 24 months. They won't be able to bid left seat in any other fleet at 24 months. The 350 in the right seat, the check rides every 6 months, and the 100 hours OE will bring the deep freeze right off the bat if rumors are true.
Hopefully the final language includes a provision that will allow them out. Here's to hoping that the unfilled spots never make it to the drop.
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