DoubleDoink

What he is saying is that you can make the same money, working less days a month. Of course you can always make more as a narrow body captain if you're willing to work a lot of hours.

But just to keep the numbers simple, let's say a wide body FO credits 90 hours in 12 days of flying, which you can do easily because I did it for 3 years. Let's say he makes $300 an hour just to keep it simple. So he's working 12 days a month and making $27,000.

Now let's compare that to an Airbus 320 captain in San Francisco, which I do now. At $350 an hour, I need to fly 77 hours to make that $27,000. The trips that I can hold pay about 5 hours and 15 minutes per day on average. So I have to work 15 days a month to make the same as a wide body FO working 12 days a month. Plus he'll fly eight sectors in his month, and I'll fly over 30 sectors in my month. So it definitely isn't worth it to be a narrow body captain, and as soon as my freeze is up I'm going back to wide body FO.

There is no reason to be a narrow body captain, if you have decent seniority as a wide body FO in San Francisco. I won't say the same for the East Coast bases or Chicago, because you do fly 3-day trips to Europe that pay only 16 hours. But that's where San Francisco is great, whether you go east to Europe or west to Asia you're going to average more than 7 hours of pay a day. In fact two frankfurts and two Paris trips equal exactly 90 hours. And I used to do those every single month.

glassnpowder98

Having averaged 98 hours a month since taking a junior NBCA bid, I think the pay argument swings in favor of NBCA. But due to the lack of bodies in the left seat, the constant reassignments, getting flown into FDOs and HDOs there is a lot to be said about staying in the right seat of a widebody making less for vastly better QWL. It is definitely the driving factor for unfilled Captain vacancies right now.

I hope the AIP and ultimately TA language is enough to get people to upgrade and have balanced pay to QWL options. It’s definitely a conundrum, but if the status quo continues after our next contract, I’m looking at WBFO once my seat lock is up.

KSwift76

Okay. Fair enough. I'm on the East coast. I would be in the top 20-30% in WBFO in Ewr or DCA. The math didn't work for me unless I got 90+ credit every month. Maybe that is possible... I'm not certain. Currently about 45% NB CA. Usually about 77 hours credit and 16-18 days off. Not horrible!

hummingbear

Again, the original claim was that WBFO beats NBCA in pay per day. IOW, take each pilot’s monthly gross & divide by total days worked. The WBFO is probably winning. Think of it as a metric for measuring pay/QOL balance. Yes, you can make more money as a NBCA, but the point is, it’s a lot more work for a little more money.

list

Yep, that’s the jist of it. I am SFO, some good points brought up about IAD EWR average pairings though. I personally think any PIC should be making quite a bit more than FO, but just play the cards that are dealt the best I can.

Hedley

My experience was that WBFO paid more on a per day basis than being a NBCA. That is based on just flying my published line in each seat and as NBCA I gross more dollars, but I work more days and end up doing much, much more actual work. For those who can handle the fatigue, the small difference in pay isn’t worth upgrading. For around $40,000 per year you’ll fly 260+ more legs, work 33 more days, and repeatedly fly through the hubs and be exposed to delays and potential reassignments. Becoming a NBCA was definitely the right decision for my health since I can’t handle the fatigue, but it sure hasn’t been worth the difference in pay.

DownSideUp

Totally agree with this ^^^^^^
I tell all the FOs I fly with that it comes down to a simple formula. If you’re a Quality of Life guy, become a WBFO. If you’re a Money guy, bid the left seat.
Great thing about today’s environment is that you can move around a try things out. We’re definitely in unprecedented times.

worstpilotever

next month I am doing a hawaii trip, HKG 3 day and a SYD trip with 1 union day in there. working effectively 8 days for 73 hours. (Syd leaves late and gets home early so I only count it as 2 days of work.). 8.5-9 hours per day. why on gods green earth would I want to go be a bus capt and get 5 hours (or even 5:15 per day)? That would be 13-14 days of work for the same number of hours. no thanks.

flyalear

I have been a NB capt for almost 2 years and have only gone over 73-75 hours about 5-6 times. i have had plenty of 70 hour months with 17-18 days worked. CS likes to assign SC/FSB at 1 pm on LDO which makes it more difficult. the times i have gone over usually involve calling after 11 am and getting a trip out of silo to keep the run going. there are lots of variables. it depends on the base, airplane, luck of your schedule and open trips.

porkchopexpress

Now that I've done both, I believe NB should pay more than WB. Both seats. I'm sure that's been debated on here and I don't want to kick over a hornet's nest. Even if our soon-to-be TA becomes ratified I won't go back to NB. It would have to pay substantially better for me to even consider it.