Hawaiian vs United
07-22-2023, 11:33 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 59
Do you have the yearly retirement numbers from HAL?
Hawaiian is growing regardless of Amazon, and anyone hired in the next two years will not be facing furlough even if Amazon pulls the 330 freighters in 8-10 years when the contract is up. The retirement numbers alone will more than offset the loss of those planes in that time span. As has been stated multiple times, the decision comes down to where one wants to live. If the answer is HI, then HAL is the choice and the water is always warm. If you want to live on the mainland, then long term UAL is the clear winner.
07-22-2023, 01:19 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: CA - A330
Posts: 45
HAL’s union wrote into their 2017 contract language that allows them to fire people. The current language that was included again in the latest 2023 contract says that a pilot who fails, discontinues, or withdraws from a training cycle such as AC qualification, CQ, Upgrade or Transition can be fired if it occurs 3 times in the same category or 5 total times during the span of their entire career at Hawaiian. ALPA is very nonchalant about it. But life happens. Be careful.
No such languages exists elsewhere. You have been warned.
No such languages exists elsewhere. You have been warned.
07-22-2023, 02:37 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 499
HAL’s union wrote into their 2017 contract language that allows them to fire people. The current language that was included again in the latest 2023 contract says that a pilot who fails, discontinues, or withdraws from a training cycle such as AC qualification, CQ, Upgrade or Transition can be fired if it occurs 3 times in the same category or 5 total times during the span of their entire career at Hawaiian. ALPA is very nonchalant about it. But life happens. Be careful.
No such languages exists elsewhere. You have been warned.
No such languages exists elsewhere. You have been warned.
07-22-2023, 03:55 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2023
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 102
HAL’s union wrote into their 2017 contract language that allows them to fire people. The current language that was included again in the latest 2023 contract says that a pilot who fails, discontinues, or withdraws from a training cycle such as AC qualification, CQ, Upgrade or Transition can be fired if it occurs 3 times in the same category or 5 total times during the span of their entire career at Hawaiian. ALPA is very nonchalant about it. But life happens. Be careful.
No such languages exists elsewhere. You have been warned.
No such languages exists elsewhere. You have been warned.
why should bad pilots be allowed to work in the industry as active pilots?
07-22-2023, 04:13 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: CA - A330
Posts: 45
However at small airlines like HA, there are a lot of politics involved in training. Everyone knows your business. And jealousy and prejudice play a strong role.
I was told by an APD last year that I was being judged based on his perception of my reputation going back many years. And that he doesn’t really ask questions to my training partner because he is a former instructor. I passed and all is well, but he directed every single question at me, not my partner. But the training culture is very political and they will hold people back who they don’t like. And sometimes they pass people who should not have for fear of getting sued.
Bullying has no place in training. At HA you need to be in the club.
07-22-2023, 07:36 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 196
Under ideal conditions I agree. Ideal conditions being that each training event you are being judged fairly and based on that day. Following the training guide for that course.
However at small airlines like HA, there are a lot of politics involved in training. Everyone knows your business. And jealousy and prejudice play a strong role.
I was told by an APD last year that I was being judged based on his perception of my reputation going back many years. And that he doesn’t really ask questions to my training partner because he is a former instructor. I passed and all is well, but he directed every single question at me, not my partner. But the training culture is very political and they will hold people back who they don’t like. And sometimes they pass people who should not have for fear of getting sued.
Bullying has no place in training. At HA you need to be in the club.
However at small airlines like HA, there are a lot of politics involved in training. Everyone knows your business. And jealousy and prejudice play a strong role.
I was told by an APD last year that I was being judged based on his perception of my reputation going back many years. And that he doesn’t really ask questions to my training partner because he is a former instructor. I passed and all is well, but he directed every single question at me, not my partner. But the training culture is very political and they will hold people back who they don’t like. And sometimes they pass people who should not have for fear of getting sued.
Bullying has no place in training. At HA you need to be in the club.
Retirement numbers but they haven’t been updated in a few years:
2023-19
2024-19
2025-20
2026-29
2027-26
2028-29
2029-22
2030-19
2031-26
2032-24
2033-17
2034-23
2035-25
2036-22
2037-12
2038-19
2039-23
2040-15
2041-15
2042-22
2043-14
07-22-2023, 11:45 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 59
Thank you
I’m sorry to hear of your experience, as I have not experienced any politics in training. That said, you should look at the actual PWA langauge, or send a DART, or email your rep, as what you posted in regards to failures is not an accurate interpretation.
Retirement numbers but they haven’t been updated in a few years:
2023-19
2024-19
2025-20
2026-29
2027-26
2028-29
2029-22
2030-19
2031-26
2032-24
2033-17
2034-23
2035-25
2036-22
2037-12
2038-19
2039-23
2040-15
2041-15
2042-22
2043-14
Retirement numbers but they haven’t been updated in a few years:
2023-19
2024-19
2025-20
2026-29
2027-26
2028-29
2029-22
2030-19
2031-26
2032-24
2033-17
2034-23
2035-25
2036-22
2037-12
2038-19
2039-23
2040-15
2041-15
2042-22
2043-14
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