Brickfire

This is a summary-judgment question, no jury needed.

Wanna live in Hawaii -- Hawaiian
Wanna live elsewhere in the known universe - not Hawaiian

(but yeah, if you get a job offer at Hawaiian first, take it)

FyrePilot

Tough decision that will be different for everyone.

Pilots (and employees in general) want to make the most money for the least amount of work.

Least amount of work equals better QOL

Most money equals wide body captain.

Pay rates are close enough and when you are making 450+ an hour so the actual hourly rate is almost a wash.

Least amount of work which can pretty much translate to fewest days at work per month. So this is where seniority lists and movement come into play. The UA seniority list could go to 20k plus where the HA seniority list hovers below 1k, but there is temporary growth to 1400 planned for the Amazon flying as well as the growth planned for the 787s

I would say flying wide body domestic from DEN to ORD is not as desirable as flying HNL-LAS just because winter in the places UA goes can really suck.

I think you have to make the decision about Hawaiian assuming that in 8 years (possibly less if Amazon wants to pay a fee) that the other ACMI companies can spin up A330 programs. Atlas and Sun Country definitely want it but couldn’t start as fast as Amazon is buying the planes. You can bet that won’t be the case in a few years and Amazon will whipsaw the contract to a carrier that won’t pay the captain’s 450 an hour to fly. I think if you are already in at HA that even if/when the Amazon flying dries up you will still be able to be on wide body (probably back to FO) but still making almost 300 a year

United is in position to be the next really big thing. It’s a machine and you will be a number. Probably easy to get to narrow body captain but those wide body captain slots will go senior to the 20 something year olds hired prior to where we are at in the hiring wave now.

I think a way around this would be to get a wide body captain bid and then transfer to training in Denver and get paid while being on a training schedule. You might spend more total days at work, but never really be away from home.

It’s a good dilemma to have. Good luck with your decision

ThumbsUp

Another thing to assess is how age 67 will impact Hawaiian. While it’s not a guarantee, it’s pretty close to a done deal at this point. UA’s hiring would undoubtedly slow and seniority progression would stagnate some, but a smaller company like Hawaiian could grind to a halt.

TimetoClimb

It seems to me you’re analyzing the business model and money making aspect of the carriers rather than lifestyle. I would go with UAL in that case. The Hawaii tourism market is basically maxed out on capacity and HALs only monopoly was Japan which has been bleeding money since the beginning of covid. Amazon was a lifeline. It’s a good company and they treat the pilots well but the contract besides the rates is behind the legacies. You could get forced into interisland flying and also most the overnights besides the intl flying are min rest. So if you wanna be in Hawaii as much as possible that’s the company for you, otherwise I’d go with the safer bet

Jungleboy

Thanks TimetoClimb and Akamai, really good thoughts, appreciate everyone's feedback!

Phoenix01

It’s 6% today and slightly decreases further by 2026 (the end of DL’s current PWA) but still a trivial point considering every other factor. The main of which for OP will be where he/she would want to live and who hires him/her first.

goinaround

Be wary of company growth on the back of Amazon carriage. I worked in ACMI cargo for many years and contracts shift all the time. If they were to shift away from Hawaiian then all of that growth, upgrade time projections, and commutability go right out the window……and they likely will eventually. United will have it’s ups and downs….but it is a Juggernaut.

Akamai

Hawaiian is growing regardless of Amazon, and anyone hired in the next two years will not be facing furlough even if Amazon pulls the 330 freighters in 8-10 years when the contract is up. The retirement numbers alone will more than offset the loss of those planes in that time span. As has been stated multiple times, the decision comes down to where one wants to live. If the answer is HI, then HAL is the choice and the water is always warm. If you want to live on the mainland, then long term UAL is the clear winner.

threeighteen

They won't be facing furlough, but losing the freighters will definitely affect the job (commuting), and what seat you're in. Tread carefully.

Otterbox

If you’re gonna live in Hawaii, go to Hawaiian. If you’re going to life in the mainland then go to a mainline airline.