Plabelover

Does this mean you can’t take off on holidays at all or you have to be senior enough to be off on holidays?(Im a student and don’t know too much about part 121 contracts lol)

elmetal

on his feelings and the myths that this airline pilot group continues to perpetuate. The fact is (as I'm sure you know given your pushback on the poster you replied to), if your flying is lost FOR ANY REASON, you are now 20-F-2 and you can (AND WILL) be reassigned into your day off.

They can take your flying because another crew timed out. They can take your flying because another crew didn't extend and thus they can fly your leg. They can take your flying because you are not going to have a 30 Min connection (20-G I think 8?). They can take your flying because you returned to gate and cancelled. They can take your flying because your inbound was late. etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. They can take your flying for a myriad of reasons. and the second they do, you are now 20-F-2 and can (and again, WILL) be reassigned into your day off. and 20-L-6-a/b are the paltry in your face monetary changes for you. an they're laughable.

In fact, I've seen extensions into a day off on a global flight WEEKS ahead of time because the return flight cancelled so now the crew is, again WEEKS ahead of time, flying the flight back on the following off day. That's right, a global 3 day becomes a 4 day because of a cancellation. Not day of. Not after trip started. WEEKS.


Tell me again how it's hard to be rescheduled here?

Sunvox

The topic is perhaps slightly more complex to unravel then most here appreciate. We are talking about "Open Flying". This is flying for which there are no available reserve pilots. Our more lenient reserve rules as regards FSB and SC gives the company more flexibility to cover sudden open trips. That is the crux of the matter. Now once "open flying" becomes open then we have Step 1-5 (20-I-4 thru 9) that the company must follow until finally getting to Step 5 an "untriggered" reassignment. As anyone who has experienced is aware Step 5 or 20-I-9 is quite lucrative to anyone that has it happen to them. Dissecting the language would be difficult so hopefully you can accept ALPA's summary on the issue which says the following:


Step 5 comparison

unstabilized

When reassigned into days off, and owed days off back, you can’t arbitrarily have them placed on a holiday. Example: you are rolled into your day off on July 1st. You are owed a day off back. You call crew scheduling, ask for the 4th off. They tell you no, because it’s a holiday. You frustratingly decide to ask for July 12th off instead. They accept.

During bidding you can certainly get holidays off if your seniority allows.

Sunvox

I am not sure your post proves what you think it does.

Someone from Delta correct me if I am mistaken, but the truth is at Delta the schedulers don't need a reason to reassign someone, but at least now they get paid . . . well at least starting in August. At United there are numerous but specific conditions that can trigger a reassignment most of which you listed. If you have not had one of those "triggered" reasons then you are "untriggered" and paid enormously well.

I was untriggered twice as a 777 FO going from TLV to HKG and it ended up being about equal to a whole months pay. It's 225% of the new trip plus pay for working on a day off PLUS you get the day off back. As I understand it Delta does NOT restore lost days off for lineholders even in the new contract.

Here are some items we have better than Delta. Some of these items are what I would consider "huge".

We can refuse to extend FAR 117 duty time and if we extend sometimes we get paid; at Delta the culture is to NEVER refuse, and the don't get paid extra.
We have IRO lines; they do not.
We get our days off restored; they do not.
We have defined minimum days off for lineholders; they do not.
Our SC callout is defined; theirs is "promptly" and open to company interpretation.
We get meals; they get them sometimes.
Our LTD is tax free; their's is not.
Our LTD pays FOs more than theirs.

I'm not talking about current pay rates as obviously that is a separate issue, and yes there are aspects of their contract that are better than ours, but it's not as "slam dunk" better as some seem to think.

DarkSideMoon

Correct me if I’m wrong but we don’t get the days back unless we drop below MDO or you’re a RSV rolled into an FDO right?

dsevo

Is this really a thing at any airline? At AA I’ve never extended with zero push back from the company. Same with a fatigue calls, zero pushback and I’ve always been paid. I’m shocked that there is any notion that extending is expected at any legacy airline.

LeeFXDWG

Wrong. 20-N or 20-M or….can generate day of restoration beyond the minimums in 5-F.

Stop it guys. If you don’t know our contract, don’t try and compare it to DLs new one.

How about all take time from reading this forum to actually read the RSV Gouge 7.0, DYK Master File, etc. to get a basic clue. Hell I’ll add in FAR117 which is but a few pages.

If you don’t know your current contract, how can you evaluate any TA Next for its value?

I shake my head at the lack of knowledge my fellow pilots know about the basic information the union provides.

Austin Milbarge

Of course everybody still gets paid for what they were scheduled. Here you can get additional pay if you extend in certain situations.

Hedley

At United when getting close to your CCO time dispatch sends a message asking if you are able to extend, providing that an extension is possible. You either say yes or no at that time and there is never any push back. I don’t know what the policy at Delta actually is, but many here are under the opinion that the extension is assumed unless you notify dispatch that you are not able to extend. Either way, I can’t imagine either company providing any resistance if someone refused to extend their duty day.