“We are moving as fast as ALPA will let us”
05-16-2023, 05:29 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,348
He’s not entirely wrong. The company will never agree to all of our demands, nor will we accept anything that doesn’t involve significant improvements. The issue comes down to how the term “significant” gets defined with 14,000+ individual definitions among the group. We will eventually get to the point where the majority just wants to get a deal done, and when that happens things we're asking for will get dropped. Historically the emphasis on enhancing other areas of the contract has been the priority over reserve rules. We will get improvements across the board, but unpleasant parts of our current contract will likely remain. The company will never sign off, nor will mediation bring everything we are asking for. We will never vote for current book with Delta rates.
05-16-2023, 05:54 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 696
I think even more than “not voting for current book with Delta rates”, let’s assume a dollar figure for contract value has actually been agreed upon (I’m not sure that is has). The company would probably be happy just adding that amount to pay rates. Delta and others then get a snap which means we continue to lag them in the value of soft areas and our contract remains inferior. Personally I think their snap is beneficial to all of us as it puts pressure on forcing other improvements and is another step in pattern bargaining - good for all. I think just the simple fact that we want significant mods to work rules, reserve, etc means there’s a lot more time spent on the back and forth of pricing those areas and it just takes longer whether we like it or not.
05-16-2023, 06:09 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,348
I think even more than “not voting for current book with Delta rates”, let’s assume a dollar figure for contract value has actually been agreed upon (I’m not sure that is has). The company would probably be happy just adding that amount to pay rates. Delta and others then get a snap which means we continue to lag them in the value of soft areas and our contract remains inferior. Personally I think their snap is beneficial to all of us as it puts pressure on forcing other improvements and is another step in pattern bargaining - good for all. I think just the simple fact that we want significant mods to work rules, reserve, etc means there’s a lot more time spent on the back and forth of pricing those areas and it just takes longer whether we like it or not.
05-16-2023, 06:13 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
I’d agree. Just changing the rates to $X and leaving everything else in place is a quick fix and could be implemented overnight. We’re asking for major changes in all sections, each of which has a cost associated with it and a ripple effect across the entire document. Both sides of the table will also cost items differently to justify their argument. We’re not going to get everyone’s dream contract, but making sizable improvements that will be acceptable will take time. Personally, I’d rather see the cost of “Delta+” come from the work rules than just getting higher rates.
I am willing to wait as long as it takes to get both
delta plus and work rules
Are you ? I hope you do
remember
we only get what we negotiate
2005 to 2023 is a long time with this sh—- work rules
and if they are good enough to get bonuses we are good enough to get a big raise
and retro since 2/1/2019. The longer they wait the bigger the retro
05-16-2023, 06:50 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,348
I am willing to wait as long as it takes to get both
delta plus and work rules
Are you ? I hope you do
remember
we only get what we negotiate
2005 to 2023 is a long time with this sh—- work rules
and if they are good enough to get bonuses we are good enough to get a big raise
and retro since 2/1/2019. The longer they wait the bigger the retro
delta plus and work rules
Are you ? I hope you do
remember
we only get what we negotiate
2005 to 2023 is a long time with this sh—- work rules
and if they are good enough to get bonuses we are good enough to get a big raise
and retro since 2/1/2019. The longer they wait the bigger the retro
05-16-2023, 06:51 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,737
Definitely willing to wait, but how the total cost is spread out will be a sliding scale between work rules and rates. We can have much better rates with small improvements in the work rules, or slightly better rates but big improvements in the work rules. We’re not going to get both since the company will never agree to what the total cost of such an agreement would be. Given that the total cost of our agreement will have to be Delta plus something, and that it is a balance between rates and rules, I’d rather see Delta rates with big work rule improvements than much higher rates and very limited work rule improvements. Rates get reduced through taxes, control of your schedule and time with your family doesn’t.
05-16-2023, 06:56 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
I am willing to wait as long as it takes to get both
delta plus and work rules
Are you ? I hope you do
remember
we only get what we negotiate
2005 to 2023 is a long time with this sh—- work rules
and if they are good enough to get bonuses we are good enough to get a big raise
and retro since 2/1/2019. The longer they wait the bigger the retro
delta plus and work rules
Are you ? I hope you do
remember
we only get what we negotiate
2005 to 2023 is a long time with this sh—- work rules
and if they are good enough to get bonuses we are good enough to get a big raise
and retro since 2/1/2019. The longer they wait the bigger the retro
05-16-2023, 07:00 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,361
I’m sure BQ is a great guy who’s had a career he can take pride in; but talk about going out on a low note. It was what, a month ago he said he was sticking around to ensure we got an industry leading contract? Then on his way out the door he slams ALPA for demanding work rule improvements on par with our peers at the majors, LCCs, & sometimes even regional airlines?!
He may have spent most of his career as a pilot, but make no mistake, he ain’t retiring as one.
He may have spent most of his career as a pilot, but make no mistake, he ain’t retiring as one.
05-16-2023, 07:10 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,361
And yet somehow we’re headed into a record-breaking summer travel season & beyond. The economic outlook is always dim when negotiating with labor. Miraculously, it’s simultaneously rosy when dealing with investors. Just remember that once you sign a deal based on your expectation of the former, there are no snap-up triggers when the latter becomes a reality.
05-16-2023, 07:16 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,348
Yep. The RLA stacks the odds in favor of the company, not labor. We won’t get full retro, but a signing bonus of some sort where the company only pays pennies on the dollar for lost wages while maintaining all of the savings of delayed work rules. All we can do is to try and get the best deal that we can while playing within the confines of a rigged game.
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