Latest NC Update.
04-03-2023, 03:42 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
Not aimed at you, just a general counter point.
I’m not alarmed by the lack of progress either. They seem to have some potentially solid gains in the agreed to column, and reasonable ask still in the open sections. We’re not going to get everything we want, but much of what is left is the normal end game stuff. I was thinking that we’d have a deal by the end of the year, but now I could see an AIP in a couple of months. We should also not get hung up on Delta + 5%, but rather the biggest gain on our W2, however we get there. Delta + 5% and weak work rules could easily yield less money than simply matching their rate with great rules.
I’m not alarmed by the lack of progress either. They seem to have some potentially solid gains in the agreed to column, and reasonable ask still in the open sections. We’re not going to get everything we want, but much of what is left is the normal end game stuff. I was thinking that we’d have a deal by the end of the year, but now I could see an AIP in a couple of months. We should also not get hung up on Delta + 5%, but rather the biggest gain on our W2, however we get there. Delta + 5% and weak work rules could easily yield less money than simply matching their rate with great rules.
04-03-2023, 03:44 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 124
From the latest update:
So the current offer is
Delta pay rates + retro assuming that is what is meant by "addressing the delay since our amendable date" (not to mention that the Tumi turd had retro already in it)
+ improvements in training, vacation, short call, reassignments and they expect even more improvements in Section 5 & 20 as well.
Some here and on the other forum are prepared for a long game that will take years in their mind. My question is what further gains do people see that are worth waiting 2 more years? And, as a corollary what past precedent or logic makes people think a government mediator would agree to any demand above what Delta has?
Also, lurkers here should know that after conversing with my reps via email it is clear we are asking for substantially more. My opinion is we will not get it, not now and certainly not if we end up in front of a government mediator in 2 years. If you agree with me that matching Delta pay and getting gains in the areas listed is sufficient, I urge you to voice your opinion to your reps.
So the current offer is
Delta pay rates + retro assuming that is what is meant by "addressing the delay since our amendable date" (not to mention that the Tumi turd had retro already in it)
+ improvements in training, vacation, short call, reassignments and they expect even more improvements in Section 5 & 20 as well.
Some here and on the other forum are prepared for a long game that will take years in their mind. My question is what further gains do people see that are worth waiting 2 more years? And, as a corollary what past precedent or logic makes people think a government mediator would agree to any demand above what Delta has?
Also, lurkers here should know that after conversing with my reps via email it is clear we are asking for substantially more. My opinion is we will not get it, not now and certainly not if we end up in front of a government mediator in 2 years. If you agree with me that matching Delta pay and getting gains in the areas listed is sufficient, I urge you to voice your opinion to your reps.
04-03-2023, 05:51 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,351
While I get the mentality, I think the opposite (Delta +5 then a +1 snap-up) would be an easier sell in negotiations. Management doesn’t want to cost significantly more than Delta, so the more we raise Delta’s costs, the more palatable the offer.
Yeah, we negotiated for it & they didn’t, but they were smart enough to bargain for a snap-up so I think they’ll get it, too. Basically, I want my 5% more than I want them not to have it.
Yeah, we negotiated for it & they didn’t, but they were smart enough to bargain for a snap-up so I think they’ll get it, too. Basically, I want my 5% more than I want them not to have it.
04-03-2023, 06:26 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 205
“they” just raised the bar higher than you could have possibly imagined. it’s called “pattern bargaining,” try it.
04-03-2023, 07:48 PM
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 50
To your point, our NC is out of their league, their ASK after the Tumi TA was LESS than Delta’s new contract. Sigh.
They bill themselves as subject matter experts (SME’s), that may be true but what they are not is NEGOTIATORS.
I’d gladly allocate my ALPA dues to hire YOUR negotiators.
Last edited by evodiver; 04-03-2023 at 08:09 PM.
04-03-2023, 09:09 PM
#68
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,815
They were just regular line pilots, extremely well prepared, and with access to the same attorneys and E&FA resources through ALPA national. Solid MEC direction was also a key element.
Delta went through very similar gnashing of teeth as what y’all are experiencing now with Contract15, it’s failed TA1, recalls, and successful TA2. I believe that experience set us up much better for a successful C19 at DL.
It’s a painful process, but will be well worth the effort. Hopefully AA gives y’all even more ammo to knock one out of the park. Best of luck.
Delta went through very similar gnashing of teeth as what y’all are experiencing now with Contract15, it’s failed TA1, recalls, and successful TA2. I believe that experience set us up much better for a successful C19 at DL.
It’s a painful process, but will be well worth the effort. Hopefully AA gives y’all even more ammo to knock one out of the park. Best of luck.
04-03-2023, 11:16 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
I was a big proponent of recalling our negotiating committee after TA1. “It was the best they could do” they said. I talked to my reps about it, they thought it would take too long to get a new NC up to speed and they thought the company wanted to get a deal done quick. LOL. Those reps were recalled. The new reps while trying to get a handle on what was going on still didn’t recall the NC but they did re-shuffle a couple pieces.
To your point, our NC is out of their league, their ASK after the Tumi TA was LESS than Delta’s new contract. Sigh.
They bill themselves as subject matter experts (SME’s), that may be true but what they are not is NEGOTIATORS.
I’d gladly allocate my ALPA dues to hire YOUR negotiators.
To your point, our NC is out of their league, their ASK after the Tumi TA was LESS than Delta’s new contract. Sigh.
They bill themselves as subject matter experts (SME’s), that may be true but what they are not is NEGOTIATORS.
I’d gladly allocate my ALPA dues to hire YOUR negotiators.
04-04-2023, 12:04 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
I’ll second this. The NC Vice NF. Operating way out of his league and should have been let go. Absolutely dismal performance and is just milking the 90+ hrs/mo. with no real results. Whoever gave this guy the keys needs to get them back asap. This low/non-performer needs to be put back on the line…that is if he remembers how to fly.
I was very vocal about those clowns and even today still think they need to go.
once a sell off always a sell off
But the new MEC was blackmailed and decided otherwise .(micromanage now)
keep them far away from any union activity
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