We are not close
03-03-2023, 07:37 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 124
It is against the APC Forum Rules for forum users to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. This applies to the advocacy of ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. It is irrelevant whether the union itself has anything to do with the action.
Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions.
The rules on APC have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts to secure industry leading
Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions.
The rules on APC have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts to secure industry leading
03-03-2023, 07:49 AM
#22
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
The forum rules that specifically address wildcat strikes and illegal job actions have been posted here since the federal injunction against ALPA (almost 2 decades). If you you don’t like the forum rules please understand that all you have to is walk away.
03-03-2023, 08:08 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 225
On the other hand, you must understand that a website facilitating discussions of premeditated illegal work actions is completely untenable, right?
The only reason why Motch gets away with his tagline is because he has said that all along… So that is not a change in his status quo. But for the rest of us to verbalize, that we will modify our behavior if things don’t go as we wish… That’s playing with fire.
03-03-2023, 08:09 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
I hope we can get our collective crap together and - at the very least- NOT shoot ourselves in the foot.
03-03-2023, 08:13 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
On one hand, I think we all understand that if the company seems to be shifting away from an employee-centric workplace, there will undoubtedly be a change the status quo…not necessarily coordinated or intentional, but a de facto move nonetheless.
On the other hand, you must understand that a website facilitating discussions of premeditated illegal work actions is completely untenable, right?
The only reason why Motch gets away with his tagline is because he has said that all along… So that is not a change in his status quo. But for the rest of us to verbalize, that we will modify our behavior if things don’t go as we wish… That’s playing with fire.
On the other hand, you must understand that a website facilitating discussions of premeditated illegal work actions is completely untenable, right?
The only reason why Motch gets away with his tagline is because he has said that all along… So that is not a change in his status quo. But for the rest of us to verbalize, that we will modify our behavior if things don’t go as we wish… That’s playing with fire.
03-03-2023, 09:50 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,266
Originally Posted by CQKSNT;[url=tel:3601328
3601328[/url]]It’s not APC’s role to protect the union or the company. Stop banning people for posting their opinions. Maybe it’s time for an alternative.
The mods are trying to save you from yourselves and others.
03-03-2023, 10:04 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,418
03-03-2023, 10:15 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,843
Maybe, and yes..,give and take is the norm in Contract negotiations. But after what our CEO publicly stated over the past months (and years.. let’s not forget the company/union stance on getting a deal done way back in 2018>2019), this Blastmail is both telling and somewhat worrisome.
I have NEVER advocated a work action. On the contrary, I have believed in my statement that we should ALL
Fly Safe
Fly Professionally &
Fly the Contract.
A look at both the ALPA Code of Ethics and our FOM states the same. (Just worded differently)
I still find it funny that mods on here question the work to rule or other actions that are not only required to sometimes force the issue, but bring up past cases to prove their point.
I may get a ban in the near future, but so be it.
I wonder if the mods would have been as quick to ban say, 150 years ago, 100 years ago, 60 years ago.
”we shouldn’t have kids working”
- you can’t say that, it’s the rule of law-
“we should let women vote”
-you can’t say that, it’s against the law-
“we should have civil and equal rights for Black Americans”
-you can’t say that, it’s against the law-
Mods, you have enormous power. I just hope you realize that when banning & censoring posts.
There is definitely a difference between someone writing up tires that might look questionable (to delay a flight) vs someone refusing an ETOPS flight because the APU gen is inop.
Or calling in sick.. should you now be afraid if you call in when you are following both the FAA Guidance and IMSAFE?
Something that both the company and union have said we need to do- evaluate if “IMSAFE”
crazy times.
Motch
I have NEVER advocated a work action. On the contrary, I have believed in my statement that we should ALL
Fly Safe
Fly Professionally &
Fly the Contract.
A look at both the ALPA Code of Ethics and our FOM states the same. (Just worded differently)
I still find it funny that mods on here question the work to rule or other actions that are not only required to sometimes force the issue, but bring up past cases to prove their point.
I may get a ban in the near future, but so be it.
I wonder if the mods would have been as quick to ban say, 150 years ago, 100 years ago, 60 years ago.
”we shouldn’t have kids working”
- you can’t say that, it’s the rule of law-
“we should let women vote”
-you can’t say that, it’s against the law-
“we should have civil and equal rights for Black Americans”
-you can’t say that, it’s against the law-
Mods, you have enormous power. I just hope you realize that when banning & censoring posts.
There is definitely a difference between someone writing up tires that might look questionable (to delay a flight) vs someone refusing an ETOPS flight because the APU gen is inop.
Or calling in sick.. should you now be afraid if you call in when you are following both the FAA Guidance and IMSAFE?
Something that both the company and union have said we need to do- evaluate if “IMSAFE”
crazy times.
Motch
03-03-2023, 01:17 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 114
It is against the APC Forum Rules for forum users to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. This applies to the advocacy of ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. It is irrelevant whether the union itself has anything to do with the action.
Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions.
The rules on APC have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts to secure industry leading
Major unions have lost court cases and in one instance suffered severe financial damage in the process. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions.
The rules on APC have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts to secure industry leading
03-03-2023, 01:24 PM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
We have thousands of New Hires and thousands of pilots changing BES (Base, Equipment, Seat) so I do not see anything wrong with stating what I have stated for over 25years.
Do you think that any of the pilots/crews that have been involved with the rash of runway incursions are unsafe? or did they let their guard down and it bit them in the ass due to a connection of errors?
Stating something as simple as "Fly Safe" might just make a handful of pilots slow the F down and put Safety where it's suppose to be- #1.
Professionalism- We can argue day and night about calling in sick when you just don't feel right, or answering the phone when you are not required to.
If a pilot answers the phone on a rest, is he/she being professional? If she/he now doesn't get adequate rest and still FFD- is he/she Professional? Are they Safe?
Our ALPA Code of Ethics demands what we Act a certain way. I see nothing wrong with reiterating that.
You asked if some of our pilots were not flying S, P & tC.
Let me put one thing out there-
We fly from EWR to Hawaii. 3 Pilot (ETOPS) and 1:30 show.
We also flew EWR>SFO>Hawaii. Now it was a 2 Pilot crew and :45 show.
Some Captains (when in SFO) would take an earlier bus, and rush to get out on time. Other Captains would do the opposite. Same van time and no rush to get out on time as there were more items to check out before going feet wet. If they got out on time, cool. If not, oh well. (and we were usually talking 10ish mins?)
Both Captains thought they were Professional, Safe and Flew the Contract.
However, you and I and every other pilot reading this is allowed their opinion with regards to which Captain they would be.
I will NEVER advocate a work action, I will never tolerate it if I see it. I am a Professional, and I feel most of our fellow union pilots are too. But- not all of them~
Always
Motch
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