Shrek

Man I hope all these experts are on the NC 😂

Or just replace the NC with the APC folks - I’m sure it will work out perfectly.

All In

There are more WB FO vacancies than NB CA vacancies. So obviously we need to give WB FO’s the bigger raise!

hummingbear

If I’m missing basic math you’re missing logic. 30/25 & 29/29 are not the same in the company’s eyes because there is a net benefit (increasing upgrade numbers) to the former but not the latter. I don’t know how much more clearly I can say this.

My premise is this: I believe there is additional money to be negotiated for NBCA by capitalizing on the current lack of willing pilots to fill those seats. This is money the company is not willing to apply to all seats, but may be convinced to apply to a difficult seat to fill as an investment in operational consistency. We couldn’t just turn around and say “now give half that money to the FOs”, because doing so would negate the benefit upon which it was negotiated in the first place.

If you disagree with this premise, fine- I don’t know for a fact that it’s true. But my opinion is that we try to get that money while we’re in a position to make a strong argument for it. At the end of the day, it has the potential to benefit all current FOs, they just don’t realize that benefit until they upgrade. But again (based on my original premise) they’re not going to get that money in the right seat, anyway, so they’re no worse off for having better left seat rates should they ever choose to take advantage of it.

horrido27

Only problem with that statement is-
company can assign a newhire right into that seat. Doesn’t have to give a single penny to a first year NH WB pilot.*

On the other hand-
106 unfilled Capt vacancies based on the first snapshot!

Ironically, no unfilled positions in MCO but 5 unfilled in LAS.
At the end of the day, we have a problem here. WE because it’s our company. It is up to management to work with our current (honorable) union leadership and come up with a solution.
This idea that just throwing equal money will solve it, ain’t gonna fly.
There WILL need to be something “extra” for Capts (maybe just NB..) and there WILL need to be a major fixing of reserve rules.
(could it be a higher sick leave accrual? Extra week of vacation? Double the Golden Days off? Higher B Fund contribution?)
THAT should fix their Capt vacancy problem.. cause it’s only going to get worse IF we truly get all those 73Max/SuperGuppy!

Still betting first or 2nd week of April we know the direction we are going.. for this summer and for this decade.

Till then-
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally & Fly the Contract
Motch
*they do have to factor in a landing sim EVERY 3 months, for the foreseeable future!

Hedley

We have taken from one group to give increases to another in the past. Not too terribly long ago we used negotiating capital (industry wide) that historically would have been used to raise the rates for those off probation to end the historic practice of extremely low first year compensation. Recently we overwhelmingly voted to take from Peter to pay Paul in the pandemic LOA.

Perhaps arguing larger increases for NB captains should be thought of as if done through a LOA. If after we spent all available capital on a contract that addressed most issues, including significant reserve improvements, the company came to us asking for a bump in pay for NB captains to fill the vacancies that remain unfilled, would it pass? Likewise, if reserve rules fell far short in the contract would it be acceptable for the company to come back to us and ask for a LOA to give only to reserve pilots to entice vacancies to be filled?

We (myself included) say that unfilled vacancies is a company issue to solve, yet we argue against solutions that aren’t fair to all groups. Nothing is fair. It is argued that NB captains getting a larger percentage increase in pay is not fair to all of the other pilots on the list, the majority of which are not NB captains. Is it therefore also unfair to expect the majority of pilots who are not on reserve to sacrifice negotiating capital to benefit the minority of pilots who are? It just seems odd to me that people demand that the company spend more money on reserve rule improvements affecting only a targeted group of pilots to encourage improved QOL for those on reserve and to help fill vacancies, yet they balk at a pay bump for a targeted group that would affect their QOL and also help fill vacancies.

AxlF16

It's like arguing about the colors of the unicorns we're getting 🙄. Quit making **** so complicated...because it won't be.

horrido27

we’re getting unicorns?!
F that Tumi bag.. now I WANT my unicorn ~

Motch

hummingbear

We’re speaking hypothetically & reading tea leaves. If the conversation doesn’t interest you don’t read it. There are many threads I avoid for that very reason.

Spesiellsporing

Why are we wasting negotiating capital solving company problems? Not enough NB Captains is Management's problem to solve. Let them pay for it. The LCA issue can be seen from both sides. Lack of LCAs is a problem for Management, but lack of quality LCAs is a problem for us. Spend your negotiating dollars wisely.

dmeg13021

I bet if only CAs got an embroidered leather jacket and no hat required you’d fill those vacancies

Add expensing van driver tips for good measure!