Profit Sharing?
01-25-2023, 12:50 PM
#151
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,304
[QUOTE=Sunvox;3578856]
Profit Sharing is a topic near and dear to my heart, and I have posted on the topic in great length here. Your comment on finagling costs inspired me to want to respond, but in the course of researching the topic of costs at the two companies I came across an item I will be researching in greater detail once the annual report comes out for both companies. Suffice to say my interest has been drawn to Delta's ownership of a refinery. In years past this line item was minor or even negative, but at first blush it appears to have been the primary driver of the difference in profit for 2022 between UAL and DAL. I will hold final judgment until I can take a deep dive into the numbers, but the latest 10Q shows Delta with $5 billion in additional income from "other" and when you go down to the notes that "other" is largely revenue from the refinery operation. Now how much that impacts profit I have no idea yet, but it does make the revenue side of the equation quite different between the two companies.
Delta also gets a significant amount of revenue from their AMEX partnership. I'm not sure where that would be accounted for though..
Profit Sharing is a topic near and dear to my heart, and I have posted on the topic in great length here. Your comment on finagling costs inspired me to want to respond, but in the course of researching the topic of costs at the two companies I came across an item I will be researching in greater detail once the annual report comes out for both companies. Suffice to say my interest has been drawn to Delta's ownership of a refinery. In years past this line item was minor or even negative, but at first blush it appears to have been the primary driver of the difference in profit for 2022 between UAL and DAL. I will hold final judgment until I can take a deep dive into the numbers, but the latest 10Q shows Delta with $5 billion in additional income from "other" and when you go down to the notes that "other" is largely revenue from the refinery operation. Now how much that impacts profit I have no idea yet, but it does make the revenue side of the equation quite different between the two companies.
01-25-2023, 03:31 PM
#152
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
The payment to the DC plan is not figured in the profit sharing calculations. The profit sharing percentage is based strictly on profits and is in fact exactly the same for all employees however it’s only pensionable for pilots per our contract. All employees will get 5,1% this year. The pilots will get a additional 16% of that amount in their DC fund.
01-25-2023, 04:49 PM
#153
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,525
The payment to the DC plan is not figured in the profit sharing calculations. The profit sharing percentage is based strictly on profits and is in fact exactly the same for all employees however it’s only pensionable for pilots per our contract. All employees will get 5,1% this year. The pilots will get a additional 16% of that amount in their DC fund.
I’m sure either you or Joe are correct.
01-25-2023, 08:26 PM
#155
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Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
What I'm getting from all of this....
UAL makes less profits as a company and has a sub-standard PS payout in comparison to DAL. Also....no DC on top.
Am I correct in saying so?
Thankfully we are in negotiations so this undoubtedly better be in the package.
UAL makes less profits as a company and has a sub-standard PS payout in comparison to DAL. Also....no DC on top.
Am I correct in saying so?
Thankfully we are in negotiations so this undoubtedly better be in the package.
01-26-2023, 04:46 AM
#156
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
Yes, the DC is on top of the profit sharing. If your MEC believes otherwise they need to call the Delta MEC asap before you resume talks.
01-26-2023, 05:44 AM
#157
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Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 704
If you believe Kirby the company profitability should be comparable to Delta going forward which has not been the case.
01-26-2023, 05:46 AM
#158
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,525
Seriously, though, how do you know? Do you have access to the profit sharing plan? Not the few words that are in the PWA that aren’t specific enough. United makes it difficult to find the actual language of the plan, although I’m sure someone at ALPA has it (haven’t asked).
01-26-2023, 06:04 AM
#159
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Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
The pool for both airlines PS jumps from 10% to 20% of profits above two different profit levels: $2.5B for Delta and 6.9% profit margin for UAL. That means for revenue levels above $36B the Delta formula is better. We need to change our 10%/20% crossover point to Delta’s $2.5B and add profit sharing to the compensation on which we get B/C plan contributions.
If you believe Kirby the company profitability should be comparable to Delta going forward which has not been the case.
If you believe Kirby the company profitability should be comparable to Delta going forward which has not been the case.
01-26-2023, 06:25 AM
#160
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,258
Seriously, though, how do you know? Do you have access to the profit sharing plan? Not the few words that are in the PWA that aren’t specific enough. United makes it difficult to find the actual language of the plan, although I’m sure someone at ALPA has it (haven’t asked).
How does he know what? What is in the Delta plan? The DC on top of profit sharing is as stated for Delta. The details were published years ago when Delta got the PS plan. The DC on PS will garner an extra (almost) 1% on all earnings for 2022. It is curious some are working hard to prove UAL is better on this issue.
Sunvox and I have been going on about this for several months. It would behoove UAL pilots to find the answer from your MEC and have them put out a comparison ....it will be to your benefit as well as the industry to pattern bargain off the better plan.....not assume you have the most beautiful baby ever born just because it is yours.
I wonder why some here attempt to prove UAL PS is better as opposed to, "Oh, there may be a better way? Let's discuss it and I'll do more research or demand more/better answers"
This DC thing is not chump change. The DC on profit sharing alone has exceeded 15k in the best year for a highly paid pilot.
If you don't have it get it!
A public service announcement😆
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