flynd94

You missed his major point. Learn how to fly the line and your aircraft before heading to the TK. I went through the full course Airbus for upgrade last august. I was on the bus the whole time as a FO.

I had multiple instructors that barely had a year at UA and very little time on the Bus. I had to interject a few times (in a professional manner) when they were wrong. I filled out my critiques and that was my number one gripe.

The training quality improved towards the MV and definitely in the LOE phase. The difference was seasoned instructors.

horrido27

^This^
I understand it's a contractual item, First Class Deadhead to/from a flying assignment. And God knows, I write "Fly The Contract" a lot.. (along with saying it!)
But as FlyND94 stated- get the point!

Last year when I went through the Capt course, I lost my FO because I had to deal with a serious Family issue and pulled out of training for a week (Side note- everyone within the training department was super helpful. When **** hits the fan, there are still a lot of good people at our company).
Coming back, I had a lot of different instructors and different seat fills. But I will never forget the London CDA lesson. Between the two other guys in the box- they had less than 8 years at the company and had been to London maybe a half a dozen times?!
They were Professional (again- something I tout) but there was a little friction in the beginning when I was briefing my UPSET calls. Guess my NY and German accent along with my fast talk didn't go over well! LOL (And no, did not curse~).

Learn your Plane.. fly the Line.. be a great instructor- but only after you have become a good line pilot!
You won't have that if you've only been here for a year. Not even one full season of flying the line at OUR company. When you do get into TK, think about picking up legit trips where you get a feel about what we do out there. DH to EWR, to fly to Europe and maybe DH back to DEN isn't what being a Professional Airline Pilot is about, if you're actually suppose to use that Fly Time to operate!
Just my opinion~

Always
Motch

dmeg13021

So is it cool to take an upgrade at one year, but not teach procedures?

horrido27

Not at all.. at least, not in my book.
Are there guys & gals who might have come from another airline where they flew a 73/Guppy or the bus and actually know that plane well enough to be in the Left seat.. maybe.
To me, being in the Left seat isn’t just about the plane.. it’s also about the system. It’s also about “managing” instead of just doing.

Could I have jumped into Left seat of my jet after I was here a year? Eh,, maybe.
Did I really know the plane- nope. Yes, I was newly minted on her with a type. But I was learning!
Had I been in the Left seat at my RJ for years and knew how to manage.. sure.
Did I know and understand everything regarding “The Continental Way”- nope.

We are all allowed our opinions. This one is mine!
Our MEC Chair basically just spelled it out- our company continues to degrade the Pilot Profession.
Guess I’m just asking my fellow pilots to do some soul searching.
After one year here.. not even 4 seasons of line flying-
Should I upgrade, should I teach? Why aren’t more senior pilots not taking the job.. what am I missing.

Motch

JTwift

I think a lot of people would actually enjoy being a TK instructor, but it’s simultaneously like being on reserve and commuting to a bunch of one day trips.

And who the heck can even afford to move to Denver unless you’re already established/from there?

Otterbox

Apparently they’ve been promised maxed out 90hrs/month 320 Captains pay in the new contract…

JTwift

my point stands.

ThumbsUp

Seems like a bargain relative to the eastern seaboard. Plus you get the hobos and derelicts… so added bonus.

Zoomie

While I don't know what the end state contract will be, and no one does, this statement is could be misconstrued.

Yes, all instructors are pay protected at 90 hrs/month.
Yes, the TUMI TA moved the bar from a cap at 9th year WB FO to 12 year Airbus blended CA.
No, this does not "Max" out anyone in TK, if you are a 2nd year United pilot, then if you can hold Airbus CA(which at this point in time is everyone), you will be paid "2nd year Airbus blended CA" in the TUMI TA.
Also realize that while TK work is great from a QOL standpoint of "one day" events, it's not a good commuter job (even though a minority of instructors commute), and we all work hybrid line/reserve schedules that include 0400 and 2000 events. So you can be on reserve one day and a normal event the next throughout your monthly schedule. Everyone only has 13 days off in a month without vacation. We get 2.5-3 fly days a month depending on NB/WB.

This post is not meant to diminish the good deal of being a TK instructor, just meant to clear up any confusion of the pay that was proposed in the TUMI for TK guys.

Another item I wanted to mention on this subject...this is one of the items at this point in time that we have "leverage" during this negotiation. The company knows that they have 900+ seniority list pilots that could choose to leave TK tomorrow and they would have to fill those positions at immense cost and this would kill any attempt at United Next. At this point in time, they don't want instructors to leave.

This allowed Delta to improve their Contract for their seniority list instructors (some of DLs gains are better than our current UPA)
If you read recently about AAs new contract negotiations, it appears they have made gains on their Contract with regards to their seniority list instructors as well.

At this point in time, you can make more as an LCA/instructor at some of our regional partners. This is a fact. This is an "anomaly" for sure, but it's leverage and costs the company more money to train new instructors at this point in time than it does to just pay them "up to" 12th year airbus CA pay.

That being said, at this time everyone at TK is still capped at 9th year WB FO. So a 2nd year pilot at United is getting paid 2nd year WB pay, and a 12+ year pilot at United is getting paid 9th year FO WB pay.

Furloughedboi

The idea that somehow flying the line specifically at United for years makes someone a good instructor is as nonsensical to me as the 1500 hr rule making a guy crop dust for 1000 hours. Flight time gives you experience, it doesn’t make you a quality teacher. Yes an instructor needs to be able to draw from experience teaching a lesson, but they’re not teaching experiences, they’re teaching an FAA-approved script written by United.

About the London CDA issue and < 8 years between the instructor and seat support:

Someone could have 15 years experience at United and have never flown to LHR before. The airbus fleet is getting new aircraft and United is expecting the airbus instructors to somehow know how to teach that stuff. That’s a United problem, not an instructor problem. United should be having their instructors be paid to be taught by the other fleets how to do the NAT stuff, but United doesn’t want to do that.